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I'm putting to rest worrying about sibilance

I just ran a test on three different turntables I own. I played various recordings, each of which exhibit sibilance to some degree, mostly female vocalists. The three tables are pro-ject the classic with the hana el, music hall mmf7 with factory mounted eroica h, and my brand new thorens td 240-2 with the ortofon om10 also factory installed. My dilemma began with constant worrying about the first table (the pro-ject) as I thought I was hearing a bit of sibilance only on certain records. So I played the very same records, mostly used from thrifts etc, on all three tables and adjusting volume or gain for each. Well, I found that all three table and cartridge combinations exhibit the sibilance in the same parts of songs on each recording. My findings are that what I perceive as higher sibilance on the hana can be contributed to its (imo) better high frequency response. In other words, the other tables and cartridges had the sibilance, but to a lesser prominence, but it WAS there. So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree, and more so with used records. I have farted around enough with the hana el and I am no longer going to fret over it. I would have a hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges are that badly aligned etc to all cause some sibilance here and there. All three were checked and seem to be dead on. The only table I personally installed cartridge on was the pro- ject (hana el) also, three preamps were tried during testing, my marantz pm14s1 built in, a musical fidelity lx lps, and a pro-ject tube box ds2. Lastly the hana el was adjusted when installed to align with the cartridge body and not the cantilever (just easier imo) using a proper protractor, and the vta was adjusted so that the hana is a bit ass down, as I think the hana sounds right like that. So there is my conclusion. I’ve been reading forum after forum about the sibilance issue somehave, but I think I feel better after doing what I did as described above, and refuse to drive my self nuts any longer!😁
Just to add, the listening was first performed on the other 2 tables, the mmf7 and thorens, again both have factory installed cartridges, also checked by me. In doing so I ruled out the hana inscribing the record grooves with the sibilance in the event its mis aligned, which it is not....
128x128audioguy85
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,475 posts
 
Something is amiss.
You have a number or "thrift" LPs - all showing sibilance.Difference preamps, tables, arms etc.What’s common to all? Amp and speakers, support, wiring, and your alignment efforts.
Have you tried mint LPs, or other copies, as millercarbon suggested?
I have sibilance on a few albums - an early Decca Julie Andrews comes to mind - but I believe it’s the recording, not the medium. I suffered from awful sibilance with an amplifier years ago - a Cyrus 2. Got rid of it, sibilance disappeared. I suspect a number of factors: worn media, a poor solid state power amp coupled with tizzy speakers and stranded cable.


audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,001 posts
 
I dont have too many duplicates, but yes I have heard really aweful pressings and then a really rather nice pressing of the very same record...quality control issues maybe...idk. I find that the older, and when available original copies sound best dynamically speaking. I guess to make if short, it’s the recording and not my equipment or set up. Also I did try various records of varying quality etc and managed to find sibilance, but mostly only here and there, and sometimes none at all. It stands to reason that if my system, ie turntables & cartridges, were ALL sibilant, then it would manifest itself on anything I played, but that is not the case. Some recordings simply sound wonderful with that Tubey full bodied super wide soundstage sound!
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,001 posts
 
Hi noromance, to clarify, no I don’t get sibilance on everything I play. It is here and there. But on the records I do get it on, ie julie london recordings (not all), I take those particular pressings and play them on all 3 tables to keep myself sane. The amp is a marantz pm14s1 integrated, so a nice warm sound signature. To offset some of the warmth I use qed silver anniversary bi wire running to wharfedale 225’s, also inherently warm. The turntables aforementioned. Interconnects are all neutral being chord cables and atlas phono interconnect from both the turntable and the preamp in use at any given time. The mmf7 turntable runs directly to the marantz, which takes any outboard preamp out of equation. Like I said its not every record...maybe 1 out of every 4 or 5 records I own exhibit some form of sibilance in varying degrees, and sometimes one song to another on the very same album varies! So logic tells me that it had to be the recording. Lastly, the only cartridge I personally installed was the hana el onto the pro- ject the classic sb turntable. The others have the cartridge that came with then pre installed, and also double checked by me with 3 different protractors ie baerwald and geo disc etc.
The records I mostly play are older 50 and 60’s albums all preowned. So despite looking rather clean, they could still have wear from previous owners worn stylus idk...on some newer albums such as a fresh copy of emmylou harris, I hear no sibilance whatsoever. I do not hear it on my pristine copy of Sinatra singing with his daughter nancy (something stupid) no sibilance at all. Linda ronstadt singing with Nelson riddle orchestra sounds great, no sibilance except what is there normally in the spoken/sung word.
Also it’s not the speakers ,as I confirmed with headphones, and I hear it sometimes through them as well, no matter if I’m connected directly to the marantz headphone jack or my outboard headphone amp....its just plain There, but not on every record.
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Its not the recording. If it was the recording then it would be on every copy of every LP ever made. If it was the recording it would be on reissues. It would for that matter be on the CDs! Its not the recording. Its the pressing.

Its quality control all right but its way more than that. The short version of the story is you take any production run of any record from any stamper cut by any mastering engineer and the great majority will be average, with a lot of below average copies with noise and sibilance and just generally crappy sounding, and with a really incredibly good sounding copy coming off every once in a while.

Early original pressings tend to be better. Reissues tend to be a whole lot worse. But these are tendencies, and there are exceptions. Still, by and large, reissues suck.

And yeah, those Ronstadt/Riddle recordings were all mastered by Doug Sax at The Mastering Lab and sound fab!


audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,001 posts
 
Yes the ronstadt recording is awesome! I got it at a small used record shop in Boston and it appeared unplayed for only $2.99! I mean of course you can hear her pronounce "s" sounds and so forth, but they dont sound overly harsh or like "sh" or "sssss" etc....now on my instrumental recordings, ie jazz classical big band etc....anything with out vocals....all instruments come through clearly with zero harshness and with a wonderful warm bloom type sound! I just love analog.. the only time I am mildly irritated is that occasional vocal recording that either was not taken care of by previous owner or was not mastered or pressed well and exhibits some sibilance now and then. One other example is the classic records nora jones album. There are at least 2 songs on that album whereas the sibilance is terrible. And again, it manifests itself on three different well maintained and set up turntables! So to me, it’s the freaking pressing, recording, mastering or what have you. I could adjust, align or whatever a cartridge seven ways to Sunday and its still there.
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