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I'm putting to rest worrying about sibilance

I just ran a test on three different turntables I own. I played various recordings, each of which exhibit sibilance to some degree, mostly female vocalists. The three tables are pro-ject the classic with the hana el, music hall mmf7 with factory mounted eroica h, and my brand new thorens td 240-2 with the ortofon om10 also factory installed. My dilemma began with constant worrying about the first table (the pro-ject) as I thought I was hearing a bit of sibilance only on certain records. So I played the very same records, mostly used from thrifts etc, on all three tables and adjusting volume or gain for each. Well, I found that all three table and cartridge combinations exhibit the sibilance in the same parts of songs on each recording. My findings are that what I perceive as higher sibilance on the hana can be contributed to its (imo) better high frequency response. In other words, the other tables and cartridges had the sibilance, but to a lesser prominence, but it WAS there. So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree, and more so with used records. I have farted around enough with the hana el and I am no longer going to fret over it. I would have a hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges are that badly aligned etc to all cause some sibilance here and there. All three were checked and seem to be dead on. The only table I personally installed cartridge on was the pro- ject (hana el) also, three preamps were tried during testing, my marantz pm14s1 built in, a musical fidelity lx lps, and a pro-ject tube box ds2. Lastly the hana el was adjusted when installed to align with the cartridge body and not the cantilever (just easier imo) using a proper protractor, and the vta was adjusted so that the hana is a bit ass down, as I think the hana sounds right like that. So there is my conclusion. I’ve been reading forum after forum about the sibilance issue somehave, but I think I feel better after doing what I did as described above, and refuse to drive my self nuts any longer!😁
Just to add, the listening was first performed on the other 2 tables, the mmf7 and thorens, again both have factory installed cartridges, also checked by me. In doing so I ruled out the hana inscribing the record grooves with the sibilance in the event its mis aligned, which it is not....
128x128audioguy85
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,018 posts
 
Jdub071, can you further describe what you hear in detail as far as the sibilance on that Linda ronstadt album? I hear generally an unpleasant scratchiness to the s sounds, almost as iritating as finger nails on a chalk board....sometimes it is only one or two songs on an entire album, other times non at all, and other times the whole album sucks. This is generally just a handful, maybe 2 handfuls of the many albums i own that are effected. Sometimes when the sibilance rears its head, I can hear it in left speaker and then it shoots across soundstage to right speaker. That was only on one or two records though. I would hate to hear "Sally sells sea shells by the sea shore" on my system! Lol
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millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Just went back and read my posts again and darned if it isn't clear to me they cover exactly everything you are talking about. Some pressings are like this. No two pressings are exactly the same. So it does no good whatsoever, gets you absolutely nowhere, to ask another person where THEIR copy of whatever has sibilance. THEIR copy is not YOUR copy. They are not the same. If you're not happy with your copy go find another one. All you can do.

Oh and if instead of randomly buying and hoping you want to buy only the very rare exceptionally unbelievably good sounding copy then here it is https://www.better-records.com/product.aspx?pf_id=ronstforse_1905
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,018 posts
 
Yes, I've visited that sight, but most of those records, however great, are just too much money for me. If money were no issue, I would certainly consider.....I guess I just live with the occasional sibilance, until I am able to replace with a better copy.  
lloydc's avatar
lloydc
751 posts
 
Some phono preamps are more susceptible to sibilance, and surface noise, than others.  Same with cartridges, as OP noted with his Hana, and certainly some pressings are better than others. 
I suspect some amps of contributing to the problem, too.  

Like Noromance, I kept after the problem in my system until it mostly went away. 
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,018 posts
 
Used three different preamps, all the same result. Amp is a warm sounding almost tube like amp. Speakers nice and warm non fatiguing highly reviewed diamond 225 by wharfedale, yes not multi thousand dollar speakers, but nice sounding. All 3 cartridges show up the sibilance on the same tracks or areas of the affected records. Some yes do better with it, but it’s still there....the Haha is the worst offender, second the om10, and third the eroica h. Eroica h is line contact so tracks a bit better, but does NOT eliminate it. Listening with headphones and bypassing my amp/preamp, still there! Use of a different pair of headphones? Still there. So honestly, how any one can say it’s the equipment and not the particular pressing Is beyond me. If I were to ship the records in question to anyone on here, I’m 100% certain that you too will here it. There is no way to eliminate sibilance entirely, especially If its embedded in the record grooves! Unless there Is a magic pill cartridge I’m unaware of.
Headphones used, akg k550 reference, grado 125, and beyerdynamic 600 ohm dt880...in essence, I have bypassed my speaker cables, my speakers, my amplifier to take them all out of the equation. Also to avoid tainting my test results, I played the least offending turntables/cartridges first, and the pro-ject with the hana last. The reason being the hana is the only one of the three for which I’m responsible for as far as mounting, and some say a misaligned cartridge that exhibits sibilance could be etching the grooves with such....The other two tables came factory adjusted and mounted etc...and were double checked etc...and are on target and aligned. All three exhibit the sibilance on the various effected records or tracks. Sorry for repetition but I feel the need to reiterate. I will be pulling out a brand new in the box classic project with pre mounted 2m ortofon silver and see what that does. Of course I will check it first with a protractor.
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