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I'm putting to rest worrying about sibilance

I just ran a test on three different turntables I own. I played various recordings, each of which exhibit sibilance to some degree, mostly female vocalists. The three tables are pro-ject the classic with the hana el, music hall mmf7 with factory mounted eroica h, and my brand new thorens td 240-2 with the ortofon om10 also factory installed. My dilemma began with constant worrying about the first table (the pro-ject) as I thought I was hearing a bit of sibilance only on certain records. So I played the very same records, mostly used from thrifts etc, on all three tables and adjusting volume or gain for each. Well, I found that all three table and cartridge combinations exhibit the sibilance in the same parts of songs on each recording. My findings are that what I perceive as higher sibilance on the hana can be contributed to its (imo) better high frequency response. In other words, the other tables and cartridges had the sibilance, but to a lesser prominence, but it WAS there. So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree, and more so with used records. I have farted around enough with the hana el and I am no longer going to fret over it. I would have a hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges are that badly aligned etc to all cause some sibilance here and there. All three were checked and seem to be dead on. The only table I personally installed cartridge on was the pro- ject (hana el) also, three preamps were tried during testing, my marantz pm14s1 built in, a musical fidelity lx lps, and a pro-ject tube box ds2. Lastly the hana el was adjusted when installed to align with the cartridge body and not the cantilever (just easier imo) using a proper protractor, and the vta was adjusted so that the hana is a bit ass down, as I think the hana sounds right like that. So there is my conclusion. I’ve been reading forum after forum about the sibilance issue somehave, but I think I feel better after doing what I did as described above, and refuse to drive my self nuts any longer!😁
Just to add, the listening was first performed on the other 2 tables, the mmf7 and thorens, again both have factory installed cartridges, also checked by me. In doing so I ruled out the hana inscribing the record grooves with the sibilance in the event its mis aligned, which it is not....
128x128audioguy85
lloydc's avatar
lloydc
737 posts
 
Some phono preamps are more susceptible to sibilance, and surface noise, than others.  Same with cartridges, as OP noted with his Hana, and certainly some pressings are better than others. 
I suspect some amps of contributing to the problem, too.  

Like Noromance, I kept after the problem in my system until it mostly went away. 
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,001 posts
 
Used three different preamps, all the same result. Amp is a warm sounding almost tube like amp. Speakers nice and warm non fatiguing highly reviewed diamond 225 by wharfedale, yes not multi thousand dollar speakers, but nice sounding. All 3 cartridges show up the sibilance on the same tracks or areas of the affected records. Some yes do better with it, but it’s still there....the Haha is the worst offender, second the om10, and third the eroica h. Eroica h is line contact so tracks a bit better, but does NOT eliminate it. Listening with headphones and bypassing my amp/preamp, still there! Use of a different pair of headphones? Still there. So honestly, how any one can say it’s the equipment and not the particular pressing Is beyond me. If I were to ship the records in question to anyone on here, I’m 100% certain that you too will here it. There is no way to eliminate sibilance entirely, especially If its embedded in the record grooves! Unless there Is a magic pill cartridge I’m unaware of.
Headphones used, akg k550 reference, grado 125, and beyerdynamic 600 ohm dt880...in essence, I have bypassed my speaker cables, my speakers, my amplifier to take them all out of the equation. Also to avoid tainting my test results, I played the least offending turntables/cartridges first, and the pro-ject with the hana last. The reason being the hana is the only one of the three for which I’m responsible for as far as mounting, and some say a misaligned cartridge that exhibits sibilance could be etching the grooves with such....The other two tables came factory adjusted and mounted etc...and were double checked etc...and are on target and aligned. All three exhibit the sibilance on the various effected records or tracks. Sorry for repetition but I feel the need to reiterate. I will be pulling out a brand new in the box classic project with pre mounted 2m ortofon silver and see what that does. Of course I will check it first with a protractor.
jdub071
71 posts
 
Audioguy 85-just hear s's sizzling kinda and a little distortion. Kinda like running out of headroom.
audioguy85's avatar
audioguy85 OP
2,001 posts
 
Ok, yes same here.....mine sounds like worn out grooves. These lps bought used and despite looking rather good, I guess u just do not know how they will sound until played. Thankfully I pay a buck per record so no big deal, and its only on certain songs on each lp. The very next song often sounds ok. And it’s not always just the inner groove songs that sound bad, it can be one on the outer and middle grooves as well. I have a brand new shure m97xe that I can throw onto a spare headshell for my thorens td 240. Some say this cartridge tracks very well etc and is not sibilant. I have my suspicions that what they are hearing is not the cartridge tracking better, but instead they are hearing the shure rolling off the high frequencies, thus making the sibilance harder to hear or detect . I could also roll back the impedance loading on my pro-ject tube box, but the hana el sounds great at the 450 ohm setting I have it set at. Instruments sound unbelievably clear, including cymbals, flutes, etc...and the bass Is perfect, as I can follow bass lines effortlessly. I believe I have my VTA set perfectly for this cartridge. It seems to thrive with its ass end slightly down. I own some original living stereo pressings and those sound fabulous, as if musicians are almost right there in front of me with super sound staging etc...and then I got several pressings that will "sssss" you right of the room lol!
jdub071
71 posts
 
Sibilance exists in nature and in everyday conversation--ever hear somebody talk with their dentures out? There is nothing perfect in nature or the recording process. If a little or lot for that matter comes rolling out of the mouth of Linda Ronstadt or any other singer then the mics are going to pick it up. To say a mid-fi or lesser or better system is going to get rid of it is I don't think possible or desirable without making the recording totally not real.
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