Tariffs and sky high audio prices.


With the Chinese tariffs taking hold on 100% of the imports and maybe even on Mexico forthcoming, the audio industry is going to see another big jump in their sky high prices. Anyone making purchases ASAP to get lower prices from existing inventory before post tariff products enter the marketplace?
tubelvr1
Its real easy, and simplistic, to look at China and see a juggernaut destined to overtake the US, if indeed it hasn't already done so. It really is a simplistic view. I'm not big on the logical fallacy of the appeal to authority (like quoting a Nobel laureate in lieu of actual argumentation) but I would recommend anyone interested pick up a book or watch a few videos with James Rickards or (if you think you have the financial chops) Kyle Bass.

First off neither China nor anyone else can just sell their Treasuries. The Treasury market is controlled by the Fed. (This fact like everything else I am saying is easily verifiable. DYODD.) Besides, even if they did, the way the bond market works is pretty much like everything else- you go to sell a lot, that sends the supply up and the price down. China can only sell so much without driving the price down. Would we take a hit? Sure. Compared to the hit China would take? Ha. They'd be screwed. And they know it, too.

I really cannot recommend enough - THINK don't just regurgitate!

Seriously. Most of what's out there is fake news. THINK! DYODD!

China has had a one child policy for decades. Combined with their preference for boys, China has a very VERY big demographic problem. Lots of single men. And that's just the tip of the demographic iceberg. As the massive legacy population grows older, One Child has left behind a huge drop-off, probably the worst in the world.

China is also a command and control economy. Very inefficient. Search the web for ghost cities. Entire cities- apartments, stores, - enough for millions of people, just sitting vacant. Go watch the videos on their construction quality. Built crazy fast, they crumble just as fast. There's tons of videos and stories. Check em out. DYODD!

Its one saving grace has been the lack of regulation that has allowed near unfettered private enterprise. This is why we see all these Chinese billionaires. Its not that they are so much better or smarter. Its that China allows them to do pretty much whatever they want (Permits? We don't need no stinking permits! Piracy? That's our business model!), and to keep pretty much whatever they can earn.

Is China hoarding gold? Hell yeah. Read your history. Unlike Americans who have never experienced hyperinflation the Chinese have a long history of paper money (possibly invented there) being hyper inflated to nothing. People who talk about the long history of China never seem to have learned this part of it. 

Opium war. Heard of it? British sent warships, forced Chinese to accept opium instead of silver for payment in trade. If China ever acts like its got a great big chip on it shoulder, brother, they do.

Soon as they get some money they buy some gold. Soon as they get a lot of money they get it OUT OF THE COUNTRY! Why, if China is so great, would they do that? Because they know China has no rule of law and a long history of monetary debasement. 

No rule of law. No faith in the currency. Not to mention a population so spied upon and controlled they already have millions who can't take a plane because the facial recognition software caught them stepping off the curb before the light changed. Not exactly ingredients for prosperity.

One more, as if the above aren't enough. Math. Sorry. But do the math. Yes China (and Russia, and Iran, and a bunch of other countries) are working diligently on establishing direct currency exchange outside the dollar. This is the REAL reason behind all the hoo haw about Russia, etc. But again, do the math. The USD market is beyond trillions. With derivatives it is into the quadrillions. Last I saw the derivatives market was 15 quadrillion, notional. Its truly astronomical. The Treasury bond market, just the T-bill part of it. is so vast as to be beyond their reach any time soon.

Almost forgot! Debt! Every country in the world is up to their eyeballs in it. And make no mistake- debt is not a problem. Problems have solutions! When you are in a plane and the pilot collapses you have a problem. When you are falling from the plane without a parachute then my friend you are in a predicament. Globally and locally, debt is a predicament! (Illinois, anyone? Anyone? Beuller?)

There is a range of debt to GDP that has been studied in many countries and shown that once debt reaches 105% of GDP its Game Over. Going by memory so could be 106, could be 110, but its in there somewhere. Like I said DYODD. Point is, from then on there's no coming back. No country of hundreds studied went anywhere from there but hyperinflation. Weimar Germany, Zimbabwe, Venezuela- those are just the ones you probably know about. There's a lot more. DYODD? Okay I will do this one for free: 28 countries just in the last 25 years!http://www.munknee.com/21-countries-have-experienced-hyperinflation-in-last-25-years-is-the-u-s-next...


So here's the thing. The US is right there. Depending on how you  measure we are right there or a just over the line. But guess what? China is a whole lot worse!

For sure China is a serious global competitor and not to be taken lightly. The way things were going until 16 we were on the road to being a wholly owned subsidiary of China, Inc. Not any more.

Just a little perspective. DYODD.


Been following this thread diligently.  Please moderators don't kill it. It is a great debate to follow and most interesting.
Yes it does affect any and all things audio. 
A very civil discussion between all parties. I'm loving it.
@millercarbon

Excellent points all. Your examples are all relevant and reasonably accurate. Debt is a big deal worldwide and defaults trigger some amazing ripples and a few tsunamis from time to time. The nice thing about some debt though is watching the reset. What we have never seen in world history though is an intentional default from a nuclear power. You could argue that Russia was a hybrid but I might suggest they were just trying to find a few loaves of bread after wall fell and the Long Term Capital Management collapse.

The one child policy was effective for China, slowing the exponential and unsustainable population growth while allowing them to get infrastructure and food production to at least a manageable level. Their birthrate is now somewhere between Japan on the lower end and the USA on the higher end, a little more than 1.5 children per capita IIRC.

Once again, China’s international holdings and trade reach rivals ours. The EU will trade with them. Period. The EU was formed to try to establish a trading block to rival us. Whether it stays together remains to be seen but its allegiances will drift further away from the politeness assumed by the US/UK. Additionally, the wave of nationalist/far right movements throughout the world jeopardizes free trade and reasonable discourse.

We all have a ringside seat and it will interesting to witness. This is far bigger than steel but the Chinese will not have to capitulate. Frankly I would be quite worried if they did. That would mean to me that they are buying more time to position.
The U.S. economy needn’t be destroyed by another country’s actions or policies. A natural disaster(ie: Cascadia Subduction Zone, San Andreas Fault, Yellowstone Caldera, etc), or anything(on either coast) that even temporarily wiped out the electronic funds transfer records, regarding the billions of Dollars, moved EVERY day, via wire, would do the job. Every American citizen, would then be responsible, for what they owe the government. They’d pay, one way or the other. For such as can comprehend the significance: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/this-is-how-much-debt-your-country-has-per-person/ Those are simply facts. Digest them, as you please. As I quoted earlier, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Someone recently added that(somehow), “its different this time”. They forgot, "IT CAN’T HAPPEN HERE!" Only time will tell. Could be another 200 years, or- tomorrow. Hopefully, we won’t be around to see the results of the current, tragic level of willful ignorance, so prevalent in this nation. "Misc Audio" thread qualifier: Except for my Canadian phono stage, everything in my home system is USA made.