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Total cost of ownership - how to reduce it

Audiogon members love their music - but I am not alone, I think, in finding that the requirements in terms of cost and time for keeping the system running at optimal, can become too steep. Can we help each other out?

Today I have spent two hours trying to find a failed tube in my system. Two months ago I had a bad episode with a repair service that did not repair and did not return my stuff. Some weeks ago, I blew a speaker driver, I am still waiting for the replacement. Thinking, I need a tube tester, since my system has a lot of tubes - I got the tester, but it blew tubes, not "dead on arrival" but "over-excited" - and has to be repaired. I am perhaps especially unlucky. But I ask myself, how much is enough? When such experiences accumulate, I can understand people plugging into Mp3, it is simple and it works.

I have thought about my situation and diagnosed two main types of problems - maybe, relevant for other Audiogon members also.

The first is where you buy a thing used and then get it upgraded by the manufacturer. You pay quite a lot for this, and you would expect the whole thing is checked - but it is not. In two cases now, I have experienced that even if the upgrade works fine, the box as a whole is not checked, and develops problems a year or two after the upgrade.

The second case is where you pay for an upgrade that is more like a new build (e g of a speaker) or rebuild (of a cartridge). Now, there is no lagging wear and tear problem, but it turns out that the upgrade parameters were not fully developed, things have to be changed or checked afterwards (speaker drivers dont work optimal, needle not quite in place, etc).

I would be the first to recognize that some of these costs (time, mainly, but money also) should be accepted. I have paid local repair costs without complaining, and have used many hours of my own time. As an advanced user, I accept some extra costs.

It is just that, sometimes it gets too much.

I would like other Audiogon users' thoughts on this dilemma, and especially, what can we do to reduce the total ownership costs.

Your thoughts and experiences welcome.
Ag insider logo xs@2xo_holter
petg60
1,486 posts
 
Hi,
generally tube gear is less sensitive to major repairs, is easier and less costly to upgrade, as long as it follows a relatively simple design/construction. You have to change tubes regularly though to have it in perfect shape. Solid state generally is more complex and needs more parts to be replaced if something goes too bad. Speakers will determine if the amp will be tube or ss.
You can make true savings by never fixing a used cartridge (few exceptions are Koetsu, VDH or any MM type), get a new one by exchanging, try to DIY your cables (power, signal) after borrowing and testing samples, do not hunt too expensive or too many NOS tubes for better sound, it is wallet draining from start, you can find much cheaper alternatives that sound equally good. Check for second hand alternatives, downsize where and if necessary. Be patient and learn your system.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
o_holter OP
975 posts
 
Mike-in-mc
Yes and maybe better sound would need less whisky - or you would enjoy a vintage more - ;
Say no to vinyl and tubes - for me this  doesnt work. I am not mainly investing in my gear to sell later. I am searching for the best possible listener experience. However these considerations must be balanced of course.

Petg60
I mainly agree with your advice though maybe sometimes cart repair does work out.
Tubes -  yes searching for good Nos tubes can be difficult and expensive. Yet again I would modify this rule. That is: search for the best NOS tubes that are in the most important positions in your system. Like the first tubes that receive the cart signal. Go from there and experiment if you have the chance. But often getting a new stock tube set from the manufacturer is the best way.
Example There is still life in my 4Telefunken 12ax7s in the first and most important gain stage of my phono preamp Aesthetix Io. I prefer them for musicality even though JJ 12ax7s in a recent stock tube set from Aesthetix are more silent. However the price for the Telefunkens is now extreme. I can live with the JJs also.
sleepwalker65's avatar
sleepwalker65
832 posts
 
Back to the topic, TCO is made up of two factors: original investment cost and repair&maintenance cost. You have control over both.

As far as OI goes, make a short-list and choose high quality equipment that meets but doesn’t exceed the “must-haves” on your list. For instance, don’t pay for a high end DAC if you are only listening to analog sources.

As far as R&M goes, choosing quality in your OI goes a long way, but you must still account for replacement of wear and tear items such as styli, tubes and speaker components. Buying equipment that’s suited to task and not pushed to the limits most of the time helps. Cleaning, handling, power supply and environmental factors helps also. Learning to tackle some or all of the R&M work can reduce your TCO if you already have some of the tools, equipment and inclination for those tasks.

Bottom line for me is maximizing my enjoyment of music and my equipment by being deeply involved in the R&M side pays off in spades. I carefully selected vintage gear and built a system that cost me less than $5K but performs at the level of many $30K systems. That $25K differential pushes the threshold of diminishing returns far beyond my wants. And I’m having lots of fun in the process!

Ag insider logo xs@2x
o_holter OP
975 posts
 
I hope the lack of recent debate in this thread is due to everyone keeping their systems in shape and their costs acceptable. Just a comment to wolf_garcia: it is tubes with me too. I also am amazed by how some NOS tubes esp driver tubes can be ca ever-lasting, for example in my Gibson guitar amp. My rule is to cut down on the hours when my tube stereo system is on, to increase tube life and decrease heat problems. It needs an hour or two to warm up. I try to limit this to ca 5 hours "on" per day, since it needs an hour or two, to warm up fully and sound its best. It is not extremely different from running a solid-state system, but a bit more demanding, yes. But then, when warmed up, there is no comparison, tubes rule. To my subjective ears.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
o_holter OP
975 posts
 
Sleepwalker65 - thanks for a good summary that agrees with my experience. There are no absolute rules, but paying for "flagship" level may help later, yes. Or what you call OI investment. Whatever the level, it can help to be involved with the company, invest in upgrades, within reason (can be hard to determine), ask about repair possibilities. Being informed regarding RM investments can help reduce them. Do a bit yourself - and you'll experience many low-cost rewards.
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