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Magnepan 20.7 and Subs

I've been reading about supplementing my Magnepan 20.7s with a sub, the general preference being REL.  However in room I'm getting fairly deep bass with the 20.7's, so my sense is that I would put the crossover on the REL pretty low, probably at 30Hz, leaving only sub 30Hz material porting "also" to the sub to augment the natural deep bass of the Magnepans.  I'm just wondering since there's precious little info in the 15hz to 25hz range, do I really need a PAIR of RELs, or could I get by with just one?  And shouldn't that one be capable of going REALLY low, like the G1, or what's the point?  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks.
pwhinson
mcreyn
293 posts
 
My two cents about subs and Maggies.  I have had 5 pairs of maggies, currently 3.5s with Mye stands which were rebuilt by Magnepan last year.  I have always used my Maggies with various velodynes and now Rythmik.  I have run them full range with the subs rolling off in the high 30hz range, and crossed over.  

In my experience, Maggies work best high passed with the subwoofer picking up the bottom two octaves (20-80hz).  They are more open and it helps eliminate the large bass resonance that Maggies have in the 40-50hz range, depending on the model.  The key I found was a good a crossover, otherwise the Maggies just sound veiled.  In my case, an NHT active crossover (X2), that is fully balanced provided the necessary transparency to work well.  The First Watt crossover is supposed be excellent, but is single ended only and about $1500.   
mcreyn
293 posts
 
I should add, that while Maggies can output into the 30hz range, their output capability is limited.  I have slapped the panels on every pair of maggies I have had when turned up and trying to reproduce lower frequency information.  A crossover and outboard subs eliminates this issue.  That said, I primary listen to modern music which often has high levels of bass, whether synthesized or due to the mix.  
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,788 posts
 

Excellent posts @mcreyn. The Rythmik subs are finding favour with a fair number of serious Maggie (and ESL) owners. The standard sealed models (F12, F15) are the norm, but the OB/Dipole model (developed in cooperation with Danny Richie of GR Research) is beyond compare. Danny himself uses a pair of the OB’s at the front of his room, with a pair of F12G’s at the rear, mated with his own loudspeaker designs (some employing the great NEO ribbon drivers).

As for Maggie bass, where they really excel is in the midbass, and no other model as well as the Tympani bass panels (two in each speaker), which are separated from the third m/t panel. Except the new 30.7, of course! Good cone woofers for the 20-40Hz bottom octave and Tympani bass panels above that is pretty unbeatable (the OB/Dipole Sub is the only one of my experience that is comparable to the Tympani bass panels.). Only thing left to add is an Eminent Technology TRW-17 Rotary Woofer for 20Hz and below ;-) .

mcreyn
293 posts
 
Bdp-24 - When properly powered there is no speaker that does drums as well as a large maggie.  
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,788 posts
 
@mcreyn, right you are. I use the Sheffield Drum Record direct-to-disk LP to evaluate loudspeakers, and that’s why I still have a pair of Tympani T-IVa. Nothing I’ve heard equals that speaker for the percussive attack of a stick on a drumhead, the hard felt beater of a bass drum pedal on a 24" head (I have recordings of my own Gretsch and Ludwig drums), and the hard felt of piano keys hitting the strings. It’s "pretty good" in other ways, too ;-) .
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