2. speakers
  3. 150303-1627

Swapped long wall to short wall and now I am having some big issues

I have a 14.5 x 27 ft x 8' room (it is narrower at 12 ft (the last 6 ft on the end where I have the speakers)


I had my system aligned on the long wall with the rack in between the speakers.

The speakers were 9' offset from listening position and the side wall were so far away (and had two record cabinets) that they were out of the equation.  I had real traps mondo bass traps in the corners and GIK art panels to handle slap echo.

The sound was excellent - great tonality, dynamics, imaging. The only issues I had were a limited listening area and not back enough for full speaker driver integration.


After listening to a friends system in a 12x23 room - old home with wood construction I was a gasp. His system was short wall and there was great integration with easily 2 rows of 3 people could sit and listen. It was a very relaxing and engaging experience.


Fast forward. I made the move. knocked out a closet in the corner. Removed one of 2 floor to ceiling record racks, a Wurlitzer jukebox, and Victrola.  I placed the equipment racks on the opposite side wall.  The speakers were set up 2 feet from the walls in front of the two corner bass traps. The sound was dreadful.  The once luscious mids were thin and highs (1.2-3khz) were bright and cymbals were brittle, hard strumming acoustic guitars and brass sounded terrible as well.  If the music got dynamic - it sounded terrible.


The vinyl was bad - cd atrocious.


I went ahead and took all the acoustic panels out except the GIK art panels.


I did some research and bought some GIK Impression 2' 2" panels for first reflection  and GIK Impression 1' 4" diffuser/bass panels for the front corners allowing absorption from the back.  This was much better but still way off.  I moved the speakers out from the wall and then the instrument subtle details snapped into place - at 6 ft this was most apparent however it developed a very bloated mid bass.


I am looking for ways to tame the high end and mid bass but bring out the mid range,  I do not want to over treat.

This in incredibly frustrating as I had my sound very refined and the short wall setup should theoretically produced better results.  I would be interested in your comments and suggestions.


Thank You

128x128audiotomb
audiotomb's avatar
audiotomb OP
1,112 posts
 

Thanks again Alan for stopping out for a listening session to address the issues.



I just posted my long and short wall room layouts in my system page

to better visualize things


https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/92


I may just place the speakers along the front wall, leave the rack where it is and sit right up next to it for a quick assessment.

I also am going to bring some Salks and Paradigns in to test


as far as the off center arrangement

I could angle the speakers from the front left towards the back right position (will need to move the rack back to the front wall)


Skywachr - with the diagonal setup are you suggesting keeping one speaker in a corner pointing toward the couch then moving the other speaker inward but pointing it down the longest diagonal of the room? Sorry I just am not following. Having both at the same location. Do you have a reference or feel free to PM me.


Thanks


TOm

almarg's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
almarg
9,670 posts
 
Thanks for the additional info, Tom & Alan.

Tom, I see that you have two preamps and two pairs of tube-based monoblock amps in the system, with a custom made high quality switchbox to select which amp outputs are used to drive the speakers. Two questions:

1) Have you tried both sets of preamps and amps with the new positioning, and if so do the problems manifest themselves with both?

2) Does the switchbox apply load resistors to the outputs of the amps that are not selected?

If not, by any chance have you ever had the unselected amps powered up while a signal has been applied to them, especially in the recent past? As you most likely realize, given that these amps have output transformers doing so would be a no no if load resistors are not applied to the unselected amps by the switchbox, as it could conceivably cause damage to their output transformers and/or output tubes as a result of what is called "inductive kickback."

One thing that prompts this question is the reference in the listing of the switchbox in your system description thread to switching "on the fly."

Best regards,
-- Al

audiotomb's avatar
audiotomb OP
1,112 posts
 

Al


1) I have tried both sets of pre/amp combinations

very similar sounding (The Uesugi slightly more laid back) and both have the same artifacts

the analog section uses the Doshi photo stage for both (line in to the Uesugi.

The CD is much worse sounding than the vinyl.


2) I could ask Richard on the switch box - it is an industrial strength design and I do not hear degradation with it. I was very skeptical at first.

Both systems worked flawlessly on the switchbox in the long wall and I could switch back and forth although I usually just chose one.


I have played the speakers on the short wall with some longer speaker wire going directly to the speaker and bypassing the switch box. The box was helpful to "stretch" out the length for the longer runs with the short wall setup.



almarg's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
almarg
9,670 posts
 
I could ask Richard on the switch box

Alternatively, if you have a multimeter, with the switchbox disconnected from the speakers and the amps you could measure the resistance between each + input terminal of the switchbox and the corresponding - input terminal, while the input being measured is deselected by the switch. If the measurements are infinite or very high, say several dozen ohms or higher, regardless of whether there is any relation to the sonic problems I would henceforth avoid having the deselected amps powered up while a signal is being applied to them.

Best regards,
-- Al

newbee
4,767 posts
 
Re room acoustic's - my room is 13.5x19.5x9. I have Silverline Boleros. I'm not familiar with your speakers but I've certainly encountered your issues in setting up my speakers.  I did something based on what many professionals do when setting up (smaller)demo room's. I set up my speakers 6ft out into the room, 2ft from side walls, and crossed the axis of the speakers well in front of my listening chair (I have and equilateral triangle set up). This minimized the effect of sidewall reflections (without panels) and changed the ceiling reflections. I lost a bit of room induced soundstage width, but on balance I got a far better (more integrated) sound. I adjusted my set up over a long period of time, mostly reducing toe in, but the end result is excellent. I did find taming the (upper) bass was mostly in finding the best distance from the side wall.  Try it. Only takes a few minutes and its free. 
More to discover