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Searching for matching(?) Subwoofer solution

Hi folks,

I have a relatively new setup in my home office (12' x 14' with hardwood floor) and am seeking recommendations for a subwoofer solution.

Speakers: Ologe 5
Preamp:    Bryston P26 
Amp:         Forte 1A
Budget:     Flexible but just want something to provide a good match for the above components.
Music:       Mostly Classical and Jazz.  Some rock, some fusion.
Source:     Well, that's something else I am seeking advice on too and will post under the appropriate discussion topic

Problem is none of the local Hi Fi shops here in the Boston area have any experience with, let alone heard of Ologe speakers.  Couldn't get any recommendations there.

Has anyone owned or at least listened to these speakers? Or any of the other Ologe speakers?
The Ologe site (http://www.ologe-acoustic.com/) features a subwoofer called Ologe 20 at USD $8550.  
Just wanted to look into alternatives before dropping over 8 grand on the Ologe 20.
 I am open to but don't know much about subwoofer swarms.

I am not looking for anything overkill.  Just a subwoofer solution to nicely complement my somewhat modest home office system.

Thanks,
H
hleeid
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,047 posts
 
Btw, first step/tread on that music quality learning ladders is to attend as many live music events we can, second can be to listen as many other home systems as we can and other truly revelatory thread/step is to listen live music seated at near source position that’s where normaly " seated " the recording microphones ( 1m to 3m. ) and we have to do it not one time but several times.

All those steps are a learning lessons to understand the true meaning of quality in the MUSIC/sound reproduction on each one of us room/systems and at the same time we will use those lessons to through the time be up-dating/grading our system., fine tunning the system.
Again, I’m talking of systems dedicated to listen only MUSIC not along HT option.

R.
audiokinesis
2,737 posts
 
@noble100 wrote: "Duke... I was hoping to get your honest opinion on my thoughts on how I understand multiple sub systems function in general as well as my understanding of how bass is recorded on CDs and vinyl."  

In general I agree with what you wrote, so let me just toss out a few comments.
" We all are unable to localize deep bass frequency soundwaves..."  

My understanding is that’s generally true in a room. The figure I use is 80 Hz, rather than 100 Hz. I think Floyd Toole uses 80 Hz. This doesn’t necessarily mean that one cannot detect the location of a sub which is crossed over significantly lower, say at 40 Hz, because crossovers are not brick walls, so upper bass/lower midrange energy can give away a sub’s location if it comes through loud enough. Therefore in my opinion a steep lowpass filter on the sub helps to hide its location.  

"the bass is summed to mono on frequencies below 100 Hz on all vinyl and cd recordings."  

I wouldn’t say "all", but I would say "almost all". (If we’re talking about a Swarm/DEBRA system, a second amp can be added to give you true stereo bass).

"Our brains are able to associate the fundamental deep bass frequencies reproduced by the subs, that are not able to be localized, with the deep bass’s higher harmonic frequencies, that extend well beyond 100 Hz, which are reproduced by the main speakers that are able to be localized. This psychoacoustic association allows us to localize the deep bass in the soundstage, for example the kick drum is located in the rear center and the upright bass is located in the front to the left, which would not be otherwise possible without this psychoacoustic association our brain’s are capable of."

I agree.  

Duke
audiorusty
270 posts
 
Hleeid,

Before you do anything I would suggest reading http://www.soundoctor.com/whitepapers/subs.htm I think you will find them very informative.

A question for the DBA folks; How do you get the mids and highs to spread out evenly through the room to match up with the bass at all locations in the room? Also does a DBA affect impact?

Thanks
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Duke,

    Thanks for taking the time to review my thoughts on multiple subs. I'm glad you validated my understanding, with the 80 Hz revision, since my thoughts are all reflections of my personal experiences using your 4-sub DBA system.  
    You stated:
"I wouldn’t say "all", but I would say "almost all". (If we’re talking about a Swarm/DEBRA system, a second amp can be added to give you true stereo bass)."

    Is there such a thing as true stereo bass? I'm still a little fuzzy on this issue. I run all my subs in mono and perceive true stereo bass on all recordings regardless of format. This is due to the process I mentioned in my summary, of our brain's ability to associate the fundamental deep bass frequencies reproduced by the 4 subs in mono, that are below 80Hz and not able to be localized, with the deep bass’s higher harmonic frequencies, that extend well beyond 80 Hz, which are reproduced by the main speakers that are able to be localized. This is what I'm currently experiencing on my system that I would describe as true stereo bass.

Are you making a distinction between the perceived true stereo bass that I'm currently experiencing and your mention of "a second amp can be added to give you true stereo bass"?

Also, when I asked you whether the bass is summed to mono on frequencies below 100 Hz on all vinyl and cd recordings?   

You said you wouldn’t say all, but almost all.   On several other threads  no one, including myself, was able to name a single recording on any format containing true stereo bass.  Are you aware of any?


Thanks again Duke,
     Tim
audiokinesis
2,737 posts
 

Audiorusty asked:

"A question for the DBA folks; How do you get the mids and highs to spread out evenly through the room to match up with the bass at all locations in the room? Also does a DBA affect impact?"

The bass doesn’t sound like it’s coming from everywhere. The bass sounds like it’s coming from wherever the bass instruments are in the soundstage. We get our localization cues from the higher frequencies that the main speakers produce.

In my experience impact is improved with a good distributed multi-sub system. This is because smooth bass is "fast" bass. We hear peaks as "slow bass" or "boomy bass", and we hear dips as "weak bass" or "lack of impact". (Dips are usually less objectionable than peaks.)

Our natural instinct is to think that having multiple arrival times from the various subs degrades the bass impact, but that’s not what happens. The ear DOES NOT EVEN DETECT the presence of bass energy from less than one full wavelength, and bass wavelengths are many feet long. So by the time we even begin to detect the presence of bass energy, the bass has already reflected off of room surfaces multiple times. We do not hear a "first arrival sound" in the low bass region because by the time we hear the bass, we are already hearing the room’s effects. But what happens to the trailing edge of the notes (how quickly and smoothly they decay) is very important to the sense of impact, and this is where a good distributed multisub system excels.

To put it another way, we cannot hear bass apart from the room’s (detrimental) effects, so we might as well take the room into account. By spreading multiple bass sources around the room, one might say that we get the room to work "with us" somewhat instead of "against us".

Last year at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest we got a nice compliment from an extremely competent cable manufacturer with decades of audio show experience. He asked us to play his reference recording of "Fanfare for the Common Man". He said ours was the most natural reproduction of that recording he had heard at a show, and in particular he said "THAT is what a tympani sounds like - THAT is what I hear at the symphony".

Duke

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