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Thiel speaker placement - am I crazy?

So, long story short, I am relatively new in my pursuit of higher quality audio playback. My first purchase was a set of thiel cs2.4s. Thanks to audiogon, I then acquired Ayre 5 series preamplifier and amp. My room is not a good room, but it's all I've got. Now that I've been listening for a couple years, I sense my ears are really opening up. I am able to discern details and appreciate subtleties that were previously imperceptible to me. Yet I have found myself trolling for something that is missing. Playback lacked a bit of low end authority and I felt an overall lack of soul when listening. Sorry for the long wind up, two days ago, I moved my speakers closer together, from 7.5 feet apart to 6 feet apart. They are about 3 feet from the back wall. And I sit about 8.5 feet from the speakers Ever since, something wonderful has happened to my system. The low end balances the high end, imaging is more precise and stable, the soundstage is taller than it has ever been, and I feel like a child on Christmas morning. My wife, like my cats, yawn and say "that's nice honey" but I feel like I've discovered something amazing. Now this is closer together than Thiel recommends, but I am sticking with it for now.
miles_trane
nsgarch's avatar
nsgarch
2,524 posts
 
Miles, I can offer you two practical solutions. One will cost a bit and be a bit disruptive (but worth it IMO) the second is cheap, and easy a to try. It might even work -- especially with dipole speakers:
1.) Install two posts to replace the one in the middle and then you'll have a place for your listening chair, or
2.) Place you speakers, freestanding in the opening and in line with the post, and place your listening furniture against the long wall.
.
paperw8
165 posts
 
I have Thiel CS2.3 speakers that were positioned 2 feet from a back wall. Then I moved them 3 feet from the wall. The loss in bass response was less than I had expected but the speakers sounded better overall - there certainly sounded different. I don't strictly follow the Thiel guidelines either as my speakers are about 7.5 feet apart while I am about 10-12 feet from the speakers. I don't have a dedicated listening room; my system is set up in my living room.
nsgarch's avatar
nsgarch
2,524 posts
 
Paperw8, there are tables and formulas that specify the relative proportion (not the actual dimensions) of space behind the speaker to space in front of them, and depending on the room's dimensions and volume, what frequency(ies) of standing waves will be generated from those different speaker position, where they will be the strongest, etc. You can't eliminate them, you can only move them around, and hopefully kill them if necessary ;--)

I wouldn't consider having your speakers in your living room a handicap. It's usually the biggest room in the house -- a definite benefit. And as an architect, I've never found a properly placed set of speakers that couldn't work well with a comfortable furniture layout.

By the way, when you describe speaker-to-speaker distance, you should be measuring their center-to-center distance.
When you describe speaker to rear wall distance, it should be from the front (baffle board) of the speaker to the rear wall.
And when you measure speaker to sidewall distance, it should be from the left or right edge (of the left or right speaker) to its adjoining sidewall.
tgrisham
1,291 posts
 
Every speaker and every room is different. I have yet to find a formula that puts the speakers in the proper place. I have followed them precisely, to the nearest 1/4 inch. Since I always ended up positioning them by ear anyway, I found that the "Master set" method cut through all the complicated formulas and followed my ears from the start. I recommend this method since the formulas cannot predict the placement of furniture, objects in the room, and variations in the walls. As mentioned above, the long wall is best. Anyway, my ears are happy, and that's all that counts.

http://www.hifi.ir/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/master-set.pdf
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