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Searching for matching(?) Subwoofer solution

Hi folks,

I have a relatively new setup in my home office (12' x 14' with hardwood floor) and am seeking recommendations for a subwoofer solution.

Speakers: Ologe 5
Preamp:    Bryston P26 
Amp:         Forte 1A
Budget:     Flexible but just want something to provide a good match for the above components.
Music:       Mostly Classical and Jazz.  Some rock, some fusion.
Source:     Well, that's something else I am seeking advice on too and will post under the appropriate discussion topic

Problem is none of the local Hi Fi shops here in the Boston area have any experience with, let alone heard of Ologe speakers.  Couldn't get any recommendations there.

Has anyone owned or at least listened to these speakers? Or any of the other Ologe speakers?
The Ologe site (http://www.ologe-acoustic.com/) features a subwoofer called Ologe 20 at USD $8550.  
Just wanted to look into alternatives before dropping over 8 grand on the Ologe 20.
 I am open to but don't know much about subwoofer swarms.

I am not looking for anything overkill.  Just a subwoofer solution to nicely complement my somewhat modest home office system.

Thanks,
H
hleeid
clio09
3,354 posts
 
Since James Romeyn (DEBRA) and Duke LeJeune (Swarm) are friends and work together on projects I would say these two systems probably sound more similar (if not the same) than different. If you note, both set ups use the same bass amp/active crossover. Perhaps contacting either or both directly will get you some answers. IMO either would be good solutions in a small room.
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Hello Hans,

     Clio09 is correct, both the Audio Kinesis Debra and Swarm 4-sub DBA systems are very similar and perform almost identically. James Romeyn and Duke Lejeune are friends and are business associates in Audio Kinesis.
James is located in Utah and, as I understand it, he licenses the Audio Kinesis brand name for his Debra 4-sub DBA system with Duke’s approval. Duke owns Audio Kinesis, is located in Texas and designed, manufactures and sells his Swarm 4-sub DBA system.
     Both are excellent systems, use an identical amp/control unit and use identical 10" aluminum long-throw woofers in their subs. However, I believe they both have local third party woodworking companies build the actual sub cabinets and assemble the subs. I believe this is the reason the Debra subs are a few inches taller and wider than the Swarm subs.
     They both come with removable port plugs that allow configuring them as either sealed or ported subs, soft rubber footers for hard surface flooring and spiked metal footers for carpeted flooring as well as having the speaker wire connections located on the bottom for concealing the connections for a clean look. These subs actually are designed for the front firing woofers to face, and be only a couple of inches away from, the nearest wall. They all perform great this way and all that’s visible are nice clean pedestals in the wood of your choice.
     I just happened to initially learn about the 4-sub DBA concept through conversations with James and, as a result, decided to purchase and give his Debra system a free 28-day in-home tryout before ever even knowing of Duke’s Swarm system. I’d also recommend calling either or both James and Duke to discuss your specific situation. They’re both very friendly, knowledgeable and helpful.

Best wishes,
Tim
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
Thanks ClioO9 and Tim!

I will try to contact both Duke and James.

Hans
audiokinesis
2,737 posts
 

Mijostyn wrote: "Duke I need you to define what you mean by a minimum phase system."

I probably shouldn’t have used that term, as it sounds like I’m talking about phase response. You can google the term "minimum phase system" if you want.

Instead of using the term I should have simply said something like this: At low frequencies, there is a correspondence between the frequency response and the in-room decay such that they track one another. When there is a frequency response peak, the corresponding decay time is longer. The correspondence is such that if we fix one, we simultaneously fix the other.

Misostyn again: "Duke is saying is that placing subs randomly throughout the room creates a situation that smooths out the frequency response throughout the room."

Just one minor point: I’m not really advocating RANDOM sub placement; I’m recommending DELIBERATELY ASYMMETRICAL and INTELLIGENT sub placement.

Mijostyn: "According to Earl Geddes... you want to keep your subs as far apart as possible and throw the fourth one away."

The four-sub configuration I use was Earl’s first-generation multisub-system. He subsequently wrote a program that can analyze the outputs of three subs and design custom digital equalization filters that will attain his goals without needing that fourth sub. The drawback is, if you move any of your subs or buy a new sub or change rooms, you need to have Earl redo the equalization in order to return to optimization.

Hleeid wrote: "Still looking for comparisons between the Swarm and DEBRA systems."

The only significant difference is the shape of the footprint: The Swarm units have a square footprint (12 inches by twelve inches), and the DEBRA has a rectangular footprint of approximately the same total area. The woofer is the same, the internal volume is virtually the same, and the port tuning frequency is the same. They use the same kind of long, pluggable port.

In the Swarm, the downfiring port is behind the woofer, and in the DEBRA the downfiring port is alongside the woofer. Hence the different footprints, but I don’t think there is any corresponding difference in performance. Jim thought a rectangular footprint looks better, and he has a much more artistic eye than I do.  I sent the Swarm to Robert Greene of The Absolute Sound for his evaluation, which is why the Swarm rather than the DEBRA has been named in three Golden Ear awards and a Product of the Year award.

Duke

noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Mijostyn: "According to Earl Geddes... you want to keep your subs as far apart as possible and throw the fourth one away."

Duke:"The four-sub configuration I use was Earl’s first-generation multisub-system. He subsequently wrote a program that can analyze the outputs of three subs and design custom digital equalization filters that will attain his goals without needing that fourth sub. The drawback is, if you move any of your subs or buy a new sub or change rooms, you need to have Earl redo the equalization in order to return to optimization."


Hello Mike and Duke,

      Even though I don't doubt Earl Geddes when he now states three subs are sufficient to constitute an effective DBA, I know there are other benefits of utilizing four subs in a DBA system in my room; namely the sense of bass ease along with the sense of the natural and unlimited bass power and impressive bass dynamics of music that I normally only perceive with music I hear played live in person.  I wouldn't want to sacrifice that quality just to have one less inconspicuous sub in my room. 

Tim 
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