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Kinergetics SW200 rip-off ??

I recently bought a Kinergetics SW200 system through AudiogoN and after resolving the issue of grossly inaccurate description of the system's cosmetic condition (a seperate thread )I have gotten to the business of adding the subs to my system. I need help from you AudiogoNers in determining wether the system is actually working properly. My goal in purchasing the subs was to experiment with subs for the first time without spending much money. Now, I understand the issues of difficulty in blending with main speakers particularly when we're talking about speakers like the Stax F81 (electrostats). However the severerity of the broblems has surprised me, to the extent that I wonder if there isn't something wrong besides cosmetic problems. I chose the Kinergetics because it had gotten a fair amount of favorable attention a few years back, particularly in TAS; and I believe bass should be done in stereo. The following are some observations based on listening and the use of the Stereophile test CD: Speed is not as much of a problem as I had expected, it keeps up with the Stax fairly well. The quality of the bass is a problem: wooly, a little boomy, mediocre pitch definition. Extention is mediocre as well. Used with EAD7000DAC and Melos222C pre and volume pots on SW200 set at -18, output seems reasonable to 50hz. At 40hz there is a definite reduction in volume and some rattling begins. At 31.5hz previous output returns but rattling is now very dramatic. At 25hz output is greatly reduced is practically all rattle. At 20hz fuggetaboutit. In spite of all this I do mostly enjoy the new found bottom (the Stax give nothing to speak of below about 60hz in my room ), although not enough to want to deal with the other problems. The rattle is mostly not audible during music playback.I have been able to improve matters with different woofer cables, isolation etc. but the quality of the bass is just not rearly musical enough. I can't believe that they were as highly touted for use with Spicas and others as they were. The crossover, in spite of some reduction in soundstage volume, sounds reasonably transparent, a bit more electronic sound but again, not as bad as I expected. Comments and/or suggestions would be most appreciated. To the person who sold these: Your comments are welcomed as well.
frogman
sedond
1,387 posts
 
frogman, as stated earlier, i'm partial to vmps - while others out there may be as good, yure gonna have to pay *at least* double the price for the same quality/quantity bass response - *if* ya buy used - otherwise, it will cost *more*.

of course, the above is *my* opinion. even if ya choose other subs, you owe it to yourself to check out marchand's www - very nice x-overs - again, my opinion.

regards, doug

justlisten's avatar
justlisten
489 posts
 
frogman, you probably know this but in case you dont, the sa4 uses 6lf6 tubes which are extremley hard to find at any price. If they were available, id still own the SA4's and the f81's for that matter, one of the best setups ive owned. Good luck in your pursuits.
jim
418 posts
 
I believe the SW 200 was a 10 inch downward firing sub -- pretty conventional design. THE Kinergetics sub was the SW800, twin towers with five 10 inch forward firing drivers in each enclosure. I don't recall any raves for any of their other subs. Not saying they are bad, but I just don't recall them getting a lot of attention. I'm in the process of buying SW800's right now. I ,too, was trying to add subs at a lower price point but found subs that integrate well generally are not inexpensive. REL's and Vandersteens were the best that I auditioned in my system, but still didn't work all that well in my system. Not enough to buy them, anyway. (I qualify this by saying that I used a single sub only -- two might work better but cost and placement didn't make me happy.) I'm going with the SW800's since they, and the crossover software, were originally designed for and integrate well with my speakers. But, generally, it's tough to do subs right on the cheap -- even more so with esl's. As others here have stated, adding bass while not losing the very qualities that makes esl's so special is not an easy thing to do under any circumstances.
sedond
1,387 posts
 
jim, thanks for clarifying for me the different sub models that kinergetics had. i anxiously await a report from you how the sw800's work w/your cls'; i'm also interested in any x-over info about it, that ya mite have.

regards, doug

jim
418 posts
 
Will do, Doug. I'm not sure how accurate my recollection of the SW200 is, though. Too many thoughts about too many things running through my head these days. I've decided to take a few months off and have really been running amok with all the things that interest me. I'm bogged down on my 3 litre project for now, since the audio jones is draining my funds pretty well these days. And the wife is giving me the stink eye when I mention that I might as well go for gear lightening when taking care of that second gear synchro. She really freaks when I wonder aloud about how I can get my audio gear to those $7 a night beach bungalow's in a remote area of southern Thailand that I spotted in the NY Times travel section. As I calculate food and lodging, I can really go on hiatus there...
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