Searching for matching(?) Subwoofer solution

mijostyn:"Actually, it might work better in a small room. Every dimension in a room makes difference but perhaps less so with multiple subwoofers."


  Hello Mike,
     
     I believe you're correct.  Very few people probably even consider, much less attempt, using multiple subs in a small room and are unaware this would be a good bass solution.

Tim


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" What is the smallest room size recommended for use with the DEBRA/SWARM systems? " 

This will be somewhat counter-intuitive, but a small room benefits more from a distributed multisub system than a large room does. The reason is, smaller rooms are correspondingly worse in the modal region and so they have more room for improvement! 

So the large room starts out better. Assuming equivalent multisub systems in both, the small room will improve more and "catch up" to the larger room somewhat, but I would expect the larger room to still sound better.

I think the lower room size limit is set by practicality... when you can just barely shoehorn four small subs into the room along with the rest of the system and yourself, you have found the smallest room size.

I’m working in a small-room optimized speaker system and surprise surprise it includes four small subs, two of which are built into the bottoms of the main speakers for the sake of practicality.

Duke

audiokinesis:"I’m working in a small-room optimized speaker system and surprise surprise it includes four small subs, two of which are built into the bottoms of the main speakers for the sake of practicality."

Hey Duke,

     Very interesting.  As I understand it. having main speakers with subs built-in can be an issue since main speakers are typically positioned in the room to optimize the midrange and treble response, along with the  stereo and soundstage imaging, at the designated listening seat.  This means the built-in subs, because they are housed in the same cabinet as the midrange and treble drivers and are restricted to being positioned at the exact same room positions as the midrange and treble drivers, which are unlikely to be the exact optimum sub room positions in the room for bass response performance at the designated listening seat.
     Because I believe you know all of the above, I'm thinking your purpose for these two built-in subs is probably just to create numerous bass modes (peaks and dips)in the room. 
      Is your new small room concept based on the reasoning that placing the first two subs at the predetermined locations where the midrange and treble drivers perform best will typically be placed sufficiently that, with the additional two subs being capable of being placed optimally in combination with the two predetermined subs. the overall bass response in the room will be generally not be optimized but still exceptionally good?
     If so, is the reason for not using four independent subs along with a pair of independently positioned and matched bookshelf type satellites just practicality?

Just curious,
     Tim

Hi Tim,

My reasoning is simply this: Four one-foot-square footprints (2 mains w/built-in subs + 2 separate subs) are easier to shoehorn into a really small room than six (two stand-mounted mains + four separate subs). And I already make the latter.

If we use a little bit of asymmetry in the placement of the main speakers those first two subs are now asymmetrical, even if they are tied to the main speakers. And we have other tricks up our sleeve if needed... such as polarity reversals, or adding a second amp and dialing in phase quadrature.

The main driver arrays are fairly directional so they can be placed close to the walls with relatively little downside. Compared to most small speakers, they have less need of distance from the walls in order to get good soundstage depth. So their requirements probably are not going to screw up subwoofer placement all that much.

And with four distributed subs, the specific locations of the individual subs are a lot less critical than with one or two subs. So imo there is less penalty from those first two subs being stuck underneath the main speakers.

I hope to end up with a competitive system for those who can accommodate four footprints in a small room.

Duke

     Hello Duke,

     Thanks for the clarification, it all makes a lot of sense to me. 
     It seems like your new system concept will probably work well not only in a variety of small rooms, but also some medium sized rooms.  Plus, I'm sure you won't mind having a speaker system that has the very convenient and useful added benefit of working well in a hotel sized room.  

Tim