Searching for matching(?) Subwoofer solution

audiokinesis:"I’m working in a small-room optimized speaker system and surprise surprise it includes four small subs, two of which are built into the bottoms of the main speakers for the sake of practicality."

Hey Duke,

     Very interesting.  As I understand it. having main speakers with subs built-in can be an issue since main speakers are typically positioned in the room to optimize the midrange and treble response, along with the  stereo and soundstage imaging, at the designated listening seat.  This means the built-in subs, because they are housed in the same cabinet as the midrange and treble drivers and are restricted to being positioned at the exact same room positions as the midrange and treble drivers, which are unlikely to be the exact optimum sub room positions in the room for bass response performance at the designated listening seat.
     Because I believe you know all of the above, I'm thinking your purpose for these two built-in subs is probably just to create numerous bass modes (peaks and dips)in the room. 
      Is your new small room concept based on the reasoning that placing the first two subs at the predetermined locations where the midrange and treble drivers perform best will typically be placed sufficiently that, with the additional two subs being capable of being placed optimally in combination with the two predetermined subs. the overall bass response in the room will be generally not be optimized but still exceptionally good?
     If so, is the reason for not using four independent subs along with a pair of independently positioned and matched bookshelf type satellites just practicality?

Just curious,
     Tim

Hi Tim,

My reasoning is simply this: Four one-foot-square footprints (2 mains w/built-in subs + 2 separate subs) are easier to shoehorn into a really small room than six (two stand-mounted mains + four separate subs). And I already make the latter.

If we use a little bit of asymmetry in the placement of the main speakers those first two subs are now asymmetrical, even if they are tied to the main speakers. And we have other tricks up our sleeve if needed... such as polarity reversals, or adding a second amp and dialing in phase quadrature.

The main driver arrays are fairly directional so they can be placed close to the walls with relatively little downside. Compared to most small speakers, they have less need of distance from the walls in order to get good soundstage depth. So their requirements probably are not going to screw up subwoofer placement all that much.

And with four distributed subs, the specific locations of the individual subs are a lot less critical than with one or two subs. So imo there is less penalty from those first two subs being stuck underneath the main speakers.

I hope to end up with a competitive system for those who can accommodate four footprints in a small room.

Duke

     Hello Duke,

     Thanks for the clarification, it all makes a lot of sense to me. 
     It seems like your new system concept will probably work well not only in a variety of small rooms, but also some medium sized rooms.  Plus, I'm sure you won't mind having a speaker system that has the very convenient and useful added benefit of working well in a hotel sized room.  

Tim
    

Darn, we all seem to be agreeing. You guys are no fun:)

Ok, hearing about Duke arranging each main speaker with a sub solves the majority of my small room size issues. 

Does it matter if the woofer is layed down horizontally on the floor?
If not, a horizontally situated woofer would fit under my floor stand supprted Ologe 5 speakers. 

Leaning towards the DEBRA system since the (flatter?) profile woofers would probably take up less floor space.

Unless,... 

Duke - are you building (or have built) a new sub array system for smaller rooms?

Thanks,
Hans