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Speaker toe in

Has anyone heard of The Tannoy Method used for speaker tie in? I have a picture I wish I could upload showing this method used on some Acoustic Research speakers. The speakers are toed in quite a bit past the listening axis. Is there a benefit? One person claims it take the room out of the equation. Thoughts?
128x128luvrockin
audiokinesis
2,740 posts
 
"The guy talks about how he went from a heavily treated room with a traditional speaker setup to a corner placement and it sounded better without any treatment."

This makes sense to me, assuming by "heavily treated" he means "lots of absorption". Here’s why:

The ear derives timbre from both the first-arrival sound and the reverberant energy. When there is a significant spectral discrepancy between the two, like when most of the highs in the reverberant sound have been absorbed by foam, the net result sounds unnatural and can become fatiguing. Sometimes using a lot of absorption is the lesser of two evils, but imo it makes sense to seek other solutions first.

Duke
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
I’ve said it before, most speakers are placed too far apart, if they were closer together toe-in would be unnecessary in most cases. I’d opine 4-5 feet would be correct or at least a good starting place for most speakers in most rooms. This can be verified using the speaker set up track on the XLO Test CD.
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
And in a long-wall set-up?  Presumably you aren't so worried about side-wall reflections...
audiokinesis
2,740 posts
 

Twoleftears said: "And in a long-wall set-up? Presumably you aren’t so worried about side-wall reflections..."

Very true.

However the proximity of the wall behind the speakers could constrain the soundstage depth (assuming you can’t pull them out into the room as far with a long-wall setup). I’m not saying the one configuration is more right than the other, but ime there are tradeoffs which often require trying it both ways in order to evaluate reliably.

Imo the arguments for speakers with good radiation pattern control go well beyond minimizing sidewall reflections, but that is one of them.

You know, if your ears weren’t both on the left-hand side of your head, all this talk about soundstaging might make more sense...

Sorry, I couldn’t resist!!!

Duke

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Great job of explaining Duke. Before I became committed to ESLs I had several speakers that did best with extreme toe in. It all depends on the dispersion pattern of the speaker. The brains method of localization, phase and volume also explain why line source speakers can have a wider sweet spot if their dispersion is uniform throughout the listening area. Their volume does not drop off near as fast with distance and if they are dipoles there is no radiation to the side walls. This is one of the reasons both Duke and I are attracted to Soundlabs speakers.
In the end it comes down to what you like best so try toeing your speakers in farther and pay attention to what the image does as you move away from the sweet spot. High frequencies may drop off as you toe in the speaker. You may have to compensate. If the speakers were bright to start with they may sound better. Much better. 
Duke, we all know you have two left ears. But, your two right ears balance it out fine:)

Mike
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