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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Just a word about the 'Copernican Theory' Lew......
You're right that it wasn't about whether the tonearm was more important than the turntable.....
What I proposed, was that the 'Platter' revolved around the 'Tonearm' 🤔
In other words...the Tonearm needed to be 'anchored' to a rigid, immovable base, disconnected from the noises and movements of the motor/s, platter and plinth.
Very much like the arm of the CUTTING LATHE which is treated like 'The Sun' with the 'Earth' (the Platter) very much secondary to the 'Sun'.
Your contention (and that of some other erstwhile contributors to that Thread) was that unless the Tonearm was rigidly CONNECTED directly to the platter bearing....it was impossible to maintain the physical relationship (Spindle to Pivot distance) or prevent differential movement between Platter and Arm.
Here is a video of MARK DOEHMANN designer of the famous Continuum Caliburn and Criterion Turntables and also the Doehmann Helix 1 and Helix 2 Turntables.
Listen at the 33 second mark of the video where he emphasises the signal defining difference between his turntables and all others.....
The 'disconnection' of the armboard from the platter bearing, motor/s and chassis.
This man is a Turntable and Tonearm Designer....
He is NOT an amplifier or cartridge designer 😝, nor a 'punter' like the rest of us, free to speculate and 'invent' theories without ever having to prove ourselves...?
In any case....as far as I know....I'm the only one amongst all the 'naysayers' who actually has a turntable with outboard armpods directly alongside a conventional one without.....and I can hear the differences.
Hopefully you may also be able to, via the Youtube Videos?
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Well...none of the feedback I've received privately, has been as overwhelming as that for the Sony XL-88.....
Particularly playing the Vivaldi 😃
The requests have been...to hear it against the AS PALLADIAN which is a $10,000 current-model LOMC.
The SONY XL-88 is a 40 year-old LOMC with a highish compliance of 20x10-6cm/Dyne.
To find a really good one for less than $1,000.00 is not difficult.
Putting it in the heavy Fidelity Research FR-S3 headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST Tonearm has improved its performance significantly I believe Dover 😃

VINTAGE SONY XL-88 LOMC Cartridge 

AS PALLADIAN LOMC Cartridge 
lewm
13,399 posts
 
I’ve heard the $25,000 Doehmann turntable with the minus K platform built in, and I think it is one of the best if not the best belt drive turntable I have ever heard. For the money, it’s got to be THE best.

If we got into that discussion of arm pods again it would divert this thread from its beautiful path, and I don’t want to be responsible for doing that. I have no theoretical beef with your current set up.

Occasionally, but not regularly, I listen to your posted recordings, and then I wait to see whether I can agree with the various critiques thereof by following the thread. That’s as far as I have gone. Frogman et al do a great job.
noromance's avatar
noromance
10,026 posts
 
I prefer the Sony. There is more drive and menace in what I hear from it. Piccolo and tympani are clearer and easier to follow. The AS sounds cluttered and almost confused at times, even though it sounds more detailed.
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
I agree with you Noromance...👍
There is more drive and menace in what I hear from it.
Exactly what I hear 'in-situ'...
There seems to be more excitement, tension and anticipation with the Sony. More like 'The Real Thing'....
The notes seem to start faster and stop instantly and there is more clarity and definition in all the instruments when a loud crescendo (or 'blast') in the Prokofiev occurs....
I can't help but wonder if these attributes are more a symptom of the Victor's Direct Drive being able to 'power' through the heavily modulated grooves without being affected by 'stylus drag'...?

Regardless.....I think the performance of the 40 year-old Sony XL-88 LOMC against one of the best current 'Uber' cartridges, proves that there have been little 'technological' advances since the 'Golden Age' of Analogue...🤗
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