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A civil discussion about the state of Audio Research

I invested considerable time yesterday expressing my thoughts as to the current state of Audio Research as a company from the standpoint of quality (positive) and customer service (negative) only to have the entire thread censored/deleted by the mods.
For the small subsection of this Country’s population that are home audio enthusiasts, Audio Research is an iconic brand. Moreso than any other company, AR was the torchbearer for tubes when the rest of the amp manufacturers were turning to solid state. Further, though there were a few duds here and there, I am hard-pressed to think of any other company that has made as many legendary models of amps and preamps that have withstood the test of time (imho only Krell, Spectral, and CJ come to mind and present era super-brands such as CH and DarTZeel lack the history necessary).
My point yesterday is that AR’s acquisition by a parent company has resulted in a dilution of brand identity-similar to when Volvo was acquired by Ford between ’99 and ’10 and suddenly cross pollination of parts and assembly took place. My second point is that unlike the car industry, audio is a niche industry and to refuse to interact with customers directly and to instead insist that the customer go through the local dealer is inexcusable. I think we would mostly agree that when one tries to call AT&T about one’s cable and internet service only to get a computer interface and then eventually a clueless third-party intermediary who barely speaks English in India, the entire experience is frustrating and inadequate. I have news (apparently) for the parent company of AR; the present system is not altogether different from getting a clueless intermediary in some remote country who can not really help you.
My local AD is not a top-notch audio salon. They don’t stock a single piece of AR gear in their showroom and primarily cater to home theater. They have one salesperson who has a history of owning AR gear and he only works part-time. More importantly, based on other accounts, I have no confidence that if I experience a catastrophic problem AR will treat me with respect and take care of me. I have heard nothing but the opposite. The human touch is gone. My local Devore dealer, a nationally respected one-man shop dealer-used to carry AR and thanks to several awful experiences since the take-over dropped AR and now sells VTL instead.
I am hoping that this thread results in a CIVIL and appropriate, mostly intelligent discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of AR and AR's future. If the mods wish to delete this post as well, fine, but I want a forum to post my concerns about AR and if this one won’t accommodate me, I will find another.
Again, for the record, I am the original owner of a Ref 6 and Ref 150SE and therefor have ~$30,000 invested in my amp and pre alone. A paltry sum by the standards of some, but not paltry to me.
128x128fsonicsmith
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
I would like to repost a few comments that I made in the now deleted thread.  As a threshold matter, I want to restate that I am an ARC fan.  All my electronic gear is ARC stuff.  I have never experienced a catastrophic breakdown in any of my ARC gear, … past or present.  At worst, just a pesky blown bias resister.  No big deal.  In short, I believe that ARC make excellent gear.

My only concern is that in that rare and unusual case where I have recently called ARC, I got tripped up in the telephone menu and had a hard time connecting with a service person.  Eventually, I was able to speak with someone, but it wasn't easy getting through.

Compare that to yesteryear.  If I called, a very nice person would pick up the phone and asked who I needed to speak to.  I was immediately transferred to Len to Kal who were always helpful.    

I agree with fsonicsmith's comments about the dealer network.  The dealer folks I dealt with are nice and well meaning folks, but are not tech wizards like Len or Kal.  Further, the dealer I used does not have an ARC  service tech inhouse or located nearby.  As I explained on the deleted thread, I would much rather deal with a local ARC service tech than start with a dealer.  Just an unnecessary step and an unhelpful conversation.

So, if ARC picks up on this thread, I hope they will take to heart that personal service is very important to the retail consumer.  The auto dealer analogy made in the deleted thread in not analogous here.

I hope ARC goes back to the old model and lets their dealers do what they do best, …. sell product.  ARC should do what it does best, …. help retail customers with technical issues.  If ARC wants to augment the dealer system, maybe they should couple an ARC service tech with each dealer.  The tech doesn't have to be employed by the dealer, … just located nearby.

Just my humble opinion of course.

BIF

tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,911 posts
 
glad to see the thread subject resurrected for sure. My point, ignored by the previous OP was that the topic and content had value. Let’s hope this one does as well. 

My situation and perspective might be a bit unique, but here goes. I currently own but one ARC component ( REf5se) but recommend and purchase for others many ARC bits built over a more than two decade span. I also have two systems in different geographic locations, one close to a middling ARC dealer and another with a fantastic dealer some 100 miles away ( easy drive considering the $ we are talking, right? )

ALL my interactions w selling dealers ARC or otherwise MUST offer more value than simple order taking

ARC so far still have ears and engineering talent, but IMO VTL and others are quickly catching up. ARC should bulk up the bench and offer better phone service. Stop charging extra for a metal remote. The plastic is good for one drop in the dark...

on China, all luxury brands that have a global strategy must address this vast potential market ( look to wine for clues ) Some brands have a USA only strategy because setting up export means jacking the USA price up and then allowing discounting. Not mentioning brands..no need to, you know the stuff that is always on sale, demo, etc..

replacement tubes better offer some spectacular value, sonics, reliability or both

enjoy the music...
almarg's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
almarg
9,670 posts
 
Thanks for what in my opinion is a particularly excellent and well-stated post, Fsonicsmith, that will of course be of interest to many here. (Personally I don't own any ARC gear, though).

You may not have noticed in the other thread you referred to, that has now been deleted, that the OP made a post requesting that the thread be deleted by the mods. And in a subsequent post Elizabeth pointed out to him that as the OP he could readily delete the thread by himself. So it seems likely that deletion of the thread was either done by the mods in response to the OP's request, or by the OP himself.

Best regards,
-- Al

Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
5,947 posts
 
fsonicsmith
... AR’s acquisition by a parent company has resulted in a dilution of brand identity-similar to when Volvo was acquired by Ford between ’99 and ’10 and suddenly cross pollination of parts and assembly took place.
I don’t see evidence of that at all. ARC products are still very much unique and like nothing else on the market.
... to refuse to interact with customers directly and to instead insist that the customer go through the local dealer is inexcusable.
I’ve certainly not found that the company refuses to interact with its customers. To suggest that a customer consult his dealer for routine matters is completely reasonable, imo. ARC’s job is to support its dealers, and the dealer’s job is to support his customers.
... the present system is not altogether different from getting a clueless intermediary in some remote country who can not really help you.
What issue have you had with your ARC products that you were not able to resolve?
My local AD is not a top-notch audio salon. They don’t stock a single piece of AR gear in their showroom and primarily cater to home theater.
That doesn’t sound like much of an audio dealer. For sure, he’d never be able to sell me an ARC product.
...I have no confidence that if I experience a catastrophic problem AR will treat me with respect and take care of me. I have heard nothing but the opposite.
I’ve never heard of anyone having any issue with an ARC product that could not be resolved. I suggest you not be consumed by your worst fears.
... I am the original owner of a Ref 6 and Ref 150SE and therefor have ~$30,000 invested in my amp and pre alone. A paltry sum by the standards of some, but not paltry to me.
I think you have buyer’s remorse, a very common experience. You expected some kind of consumer "experience" as part of purchasing these products, and reality did not meet your expectation.

I’ve owned various ARC products for years. During that time, I’ve dealt with three different ARC dealers, and each has given me exceptional service. I’ve never had any issue with service on any ARC product.

teo_audio
2,197 posts
 
Most enthusiast companies bought by conglomerates that are mainstream, have no idea how to run an enthusiast company.

The things they do to streamline the company and make it more profitable, are usually the very things that alienate the entire enthusiast customer base.

To make the transition to a mainstream company, the enthusiast methodology and way have to be dumped on the side of the road. I don’t think that there has ever been a single exception to this sort of scenario, ever.

I’m not saying that the new owners are trying to make it go mainstream, no, not at all. Specialist audio and mainstream audio are planets apart. re how the companies handle themselves in their respective markets.

But there can be a high level of ignorance of how things need to be done, in an enthusiast market, vs that of what might happen when a mainstream organizational hire comes in and tries to align a small enthusiast company into a mainstream method and way, re offices, communication, customer handling, etc..

It’s very simple, as many dozens of results show...that the mainstreamization of the company/offices/manufacturing/etc edifice.... does not work.
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