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A civil discussion about the state of Audio Research

I invested considerable time yesterday expressing my thoughts as to the current state of Audio Research as a company from the standpoint of quality (positive) and customer service (negative) only to have the entire thread censored/deleted by the mods.
For the small subsection of this Country’s population that are home audio enthusiasts, Audio Research is an iconic brand. Moreso than any other company, AR was the torchbearer for tubes when the rest of the amp manufacturers were turning to solid state. Further, though there were a few duds here and there, I am hard-pressed to think of any other company that has made as many legendary models of amps and preamps that have withstood the test of time (imho only Krell, Spectral, and CJ come to mind and present era super-brands such as CH and DarTZeel lack the history necessary).
My point yesterday is that AR’s acquisition by a parent company has resulted in a dilution of brand identity-similar to when Volvo was acquired by Ford between ’99 and ’10 and suddenly cross pollination of parts and assembly took place. My second point is that unlike the car industry, audio is a niche industry and to refuse to interact with customers directly and to instead insist that the customer go through the local dealer is inexcusable. I think we would mostly agree that when one tries to call AT&T about one’s cable and internet service only to get a computer interface and then eventually a clueless third-party intermediary who barely speaks English in India, the entire experience is frustrating and inadequate. I have news (apparently) for the parent company of AR; the present system is not altogether different from getting a clueless intermediary in some remote country who can not really help you.
My local AD is not a top-notch audio salon. They don’t stock a single piece of AR gear in their showroom and primarily cater to home theater. They have one salesperson who has a history of owning AR gear and he only works part-time. More importantly, based on other accounts, I have no confidence that if I experience a catastrophic problem AR will treat me with respect and take care of me. I have heard nothing but the opposite. The human touch is gone. My local Devore dealer, a nationally respected one-man shop dealer-used to carry AR and thanks to several awful experiences since the take-over dropped AR and now sells VTL instead.
I am hoping that this thread results in a CIVIL and appropriate, mostly intelligent discussion of the strengths and weaknesses of AR and AR's future. If the mods wish to delete this post as well, fine, but I want a forum to post my concerns about AR and if this one won’t accommodate me, I will find another.
Again, for the record, I am the original owner of a Ref 6 and Ref 150SE and therefor have ~$30,000 invested in my amp and pre alone. A paltry sum by the standards of some, but not paltry to me.
128x128fsonicsmith
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Thanks for what in my opinion is a particularly excellent and well-stated post, Fsonicsmith, that will of course be of interest to many here. (Personally I don't own any ARC gear, though).

You may not have noticed in the other thread you referred to, that has now been deleted, that the OP made a post requesting that the thread be deleted by the mods. And in a subsequent post Elizabeth pointed out to him that as the OP he could readily delete the thread by himself. So it seems likely that deletion of the thread was either done by the mods in response to the OP's request, or by the OP himself.

Best regards,
-- Al

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cleeds
5,960 posts
 
fsonicsmith
... AR’s acquisition by a parent company has resulted in a dilution of brand identity-similar to when Volvo was acquired by Ford between ’99 and ’10 and suddenly cross pollination of parts and assembly took place.
I don’t see evidence of that at all. ARC products are still very much unique and like nothing else on the market.
... to refuse to interact with customers directly and to instead insist that the customer go through the local dealer is inexcusable.
I’ve certainly not found that the company refuses to interact with its customers. To suggest that a customer consult his dealer for routine matters is completely reasonable, imo. ARC’s job is to support its dealers, and the dealer’s job is to support his customers.
... the present system is not altogether different from getting a clueless intermediary in some remote country who can not really help you.
What issue have you had with your ARC products that you were not able to resolve?
My local AD is not a top-notch audio salon. They don’t stock a single piece of AR gear in their showroom and primarily cater to home theater.
That doesn’t sound like much of an audio dealer. For sure, he’d never be able to sell me an ARC product.
...I have no confidence that if I experience a catastrophic problem AR will treat me with respect and take care of me. I have heard nothing but the opposite.
I’ve never heard of anyone having any issue with an ARC product that could not be resolved. I suggest you not be consumed by your worst fears.
... I am the original owner of a Ref 6 and Ref 150SE and therefor have ~$30,000 invested in my amp and pre alone. A paltry sum by the standards of some, but not paltry to me.
I think you have buyer’s remorse, a very common experience. You expected some kind of consumer "experience" as part of purchasing these products, and reality did not meet your expectation.

I’ve owned various ARC products for years. During that time, I’ve dealt with three different ARC dealers, and each has given me exceptional service. I’ve never had any issue with service on any ARC product.

teo_audio
2,197 posts
 
Most enthusiast companies bought by conglomerates that are mainstream, have no idea how to run an enthusiast company.

The things they do to streamline the company and make it more profitable, are usually the very things that alienate the entire enthusiast customer base.

To make the transition to a mainstream company, the enthusiast methodology and way have to be dumped on the side of the road. I don’t think that there has ever been a single exception to this sort of scenario, ever.

I’m not saying that the new owners are trying to make it go mainstream, no, not at all. Specialist audio and mainstream audio are planets apart. re how the companies handle themselves in their respective markets.

But there can be a high level of ignorance of how things need to be done, in an enthusiast market, vs that of what might happen when a mainstream organizational hire comes in and tries to align a small enthusiast company into a mainstream method and way, re offices, communication, customer handling, etc..

It’s very simple, as many dozens of results show...that the mainstreamization of the company/offices/manufacturing/etc edifice.... does not work.
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fsonicsmith OP
959 posts
 
I wish to apologize-and do so humbly-to the excellent mods for using the "C"-word (censorship) as it was totally uncalled for. I am often surprised by the threads that remain unfettered on this Board-the mods have proven their tolerance and restraint. Further, in light of Almarg’s excellent post, for all I know the OP deleted the thread.
Now on to Cleeds; did you not read my appeal for civility? To label a complete stranger with the patronizing term of "buyer’s remorse" is not only uncivil but it is incorrect in my case. I have owned my two ARC pieces for two years and am nothing but proud and happy to own them.
Those of us who own current-production ARC gear know that ARC has adopted the KT150 as their workhorse power tube. They emphasize that for best results and reliability we should buy replacement KT150’s from them, at fairly ridiculous pricing, to ensure proper tube matching and longevity. They claim that they put batches of KT150’s through a rigorous testing process that no other supplier can match. I sent not one, not two, but three emails to ARC inquiring as to an octet of back-up KT150’s six months ago, each email spaced two weeks apart, and was never graced with the courtesy of a response. Now they seem to know what they are talking about as I had one very well respected tube dealer-Jim McShane-tell me that he no longer sells KT150’s because the Tungsol factory is putting out so many crap tubes that he can no longer supply the customer with a reliable tube. With ARC not responding to me I felt compelled to pay more than a thousand bucks with someone else for an octet. They remain in their original shipping box and only time will tell if I invested well. Can you now see why I am somewhat frustrated?
As to dilution and cross-pollination with other brands, I happen to be of the belief that the new mono bloc amps are garish and smack of McIntosh with their oversized meters dominating the faceplate. YMMV. 
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
fsonicsmith …. interesting post about Jim McShane.  You said that "Jim McShane- [told you] that he no longer sells KT150’s because the Tungsol factory is putting out so many crap tubes that he can no longer supply the customer with a reliable tube."  That is quite disturbing.  

As I mentioned in the deleted thread, Upscale sells KT-150s for $95 per tube, about half the amount that ARC charges.  The thought that 2 quads of ARC sourced KT-150s will cost upwards of $1600 is quite sobering.

As a general matter, I have had great experiences buying tubes from Upscale.  The only glitch was when I bought power tubes for my ARC amps. For some reason, the bias spread of Upscale matched pairs was not as tight as ARC sourced tubes.  

So, I have a back-up set of 2 quads of Upscale sourced KT-150s that I bought several years ago. As stated, the bias spread is barely within ARC spec.  Maybe Upscale can rematch my KT-150s??    

P.S. I agree 100% with Cleeds' comment that "ARC products are still very much unique and like nothing else on the market."  
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