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Which stereo amp to try under $30k

Having just made several upgrades to my system, it's now time for the amp. Given the number of amps in the 15-30k range, I'm guessing many of you have experiences with them. To get started, I'll tell you my (1) my guidance (2) my current list of options (3) My current setup. Looking forward to getting more options on my list, as I'd like to pull the trigger in about 2 months and need to start listening.

My Guidance
- Under $30k
- I need to be able to hear the amp before purchase, preferably at a local shop (SF Bay Area)
- New or used ok
- Large sound stage
- Bass
- More Bass... all the bass
- Very much prefer stereo to fit in my rack. I have small children and not enough room for monos.
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
- 15/20A or something I can plug into a regular wall outlet

My Current List of options
- Luxman M900u (current top of list)
- Ayre VX-R Twenty
- Pass Labs XA160.8 (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
- Boulder 2160 (a little above budget)
- Audio Research 160S (doesn't meet all of my guidance)

My Current Setup
- AMG Viella Turbo Turntable w/ Koetsu Onyx Platinum Cartridge
- Boulder 508 Phono Stage
- Mytek Manhattan II DAC (next upgrade after the amp - maybe a dCS Bartok?)
- Audio Research Reference 6 line stage
- McIntosh MC452 power amplifier
- B&W 802D3 speakers
- AudioQuest and Nordost cabling or a Symposium Osiris rack

What I listen to: Anything from the 60s on vinyl, some things from the 70s on vinyl. A lot of large orchestral and jazz, also a fair amount of pop, from any decade, on vinyl and digital. Thanks for reading my long post! I'll keep this thread updated with amps I hear. Lots of great shops in the area. My two favorites are The Analog Room in Campbell and Music Lovers Audio in Oakland and SF.
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gavman's avatar
gavman
138 posts
 
I have a Boulder 2060 and am currently saving for a 2160.
It will take me three years. 
I think you can probably guess what I'm going to recommend....a pre owned 2060.
Not mine of course, because my cat was sick on it and it went pop

In my limited experience, Boulder does everything. The effortlessness, huge soundstage and unfathomable grip on the bass you might expect, but the exquisite delicacy on vocals and acoustic music was, for me at least, unexpected.
I have never heard music so vibrant, textured and 'right' sounding as via Boulder amplification. I have a different relationship to music now, compared to the past. Totally immersive, it really feels as though my system is on the side of the artiste,  and the effect i experience is what the artist was trying to achieve. No more diving in for odd tracks and then moving on; whole sides run into whole albums run into entire discographies.
They combine the best of the 'English' sound
(a place for everything and everything in place, perfectly controlled) with the larger scale of the 'American' sound, and add a neat trick; when the Boulder arrives it seems to take my room out of the equation. I have no idea how they manage this, but my room seems to transform from it's usual, concrete floor and patio-windowed reflective harshness into a fully treated, covered-with soft fabrics fluffy chamber of sublime comfort

Alternatively for a taste of the new wave get an 1160, then when you can afford get another and bi amp.
2 x 1160 = 1 x 2160= 😁
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mayoradamwest OP
430 posts
 
Thanks @gavman even a used 2160 is likely out of my price range, given they are around 60k new. Is that really true that the 1160 is 1/2 the 2160? There is little detail on the 1160 but it seemed like a class AB amp where the 2160 is class A? Another concern is that WC didn’t like Boulder (I think the 2050) and most of the magazines say it’s great if quite sterile. Either way, I will definitely listen to them both as they are carried by my shop of choice, Music Lovers Audio. I really appreciate everyone’s help. I’ve got until late November when I’ll have the funds.

ps can it be plugged into a regular wall socket? The rear of the amp appears to have a high amperage plug. 
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,942 posts
 
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
@mayoradamwest  A lot of us older audiophiles grew up with exposed tubes. If kids know they are 'hot' they stay away- otherwise a stove in the house might not be a good idea either :)  Even a class A solid state amp is going to be hot- such an amp will make 85-90% of the same heat made by a class A tube amp of the same power. The heat of tubes comes from their class of operation, not their filaments. Most solid state amps make less heat because they are 'AB' but they are biased so lightly that they are much closer to 'B' than 'A'. This is why solid state amps have a reputation for being cooler for the most part.

 Some tube amps do fit into a rack. But if you are looking for a warmer, more musical presentation, tubes might be the only way to go. But I agree with @almarg  your speakers present difficulty for tube amplifiers. If I were looking at this I'd also be looking at a speaker that is easier to drive and this would be true even if I was staying with solid state. The simple fact of the matter is that **all** amplifiers make higher distortion into lower impedances and difficult phase angles! The distortion I'm talking about is higher ordered harmonic distortion, which will be audible as brightness, harshness and reduced detail. By simply using a speaker of higher impedance you can get any amplifier to have a smoother and more detailed presentation. And make no mistake: many people conflate brightness with detail and the two are not the same!

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mayoradamwest OP
430 posts
 
I’m not sure about all of this chatter about how my speakers don’t work with tubes but maybe they will if I get the right amp or whatnot. I said I didn’t want a tube amp. I’ve got a tube line stage. That’s enough tube for me. Looking forward to trying several of the amps suggested here over the coming weeks. 
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
mayoradamwest OP

almarg
The impedance curves shown in John Atkinson’s measurements of your speaker indicate, on paper at least, that the speaker is highly unfriendly to tube amplification. Especially in key parts of the bass region that you are concerned with, e.g. 50 to 100 Hz or so, taking into account the phase angle plot as well as the impedance magnitude.
Totally agree with Al on this, I might just add that the -64 phase angle combined with the low impedance at 70hz could be seen by the amp as 2ohm or even lower.

But because the 802d’s are 91db, only 50watts will do the trick, so long as you don’t want party levels..
But!!!! that 50w needs to almost double to 4ohm 100w and again to 2ohms 200w, to make sure the amp has good current, and it needs to do that without breaking a sweat, and stay stable doing it.
Solid state amps with bjt (bi-polar) output stages will be your best best.

This will do a magnificent job, and you can select your own amount of Class-A bias on the front on the run, also good for hot days, just back it off.
https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/power-amplifiers/antileon-evo-stereo/
or the cheaper Mephisto https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/power-amplifiers/mephisto/


Cheers George
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