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Which stereo amp to try under $30k

Having just made several upgrades to my system, it's now time for the amp. Given the number of amps in the 15-30k range, I'm guessing many of you have experiences with them. To get started, I'll tell you my (1) my guidance (2) my current list of options (3) My current setup. Looking forward to getting more options on my list, as I'd like to pull the trigger in about 2 months and need to start listening.

My Guidance
- Under $30k
- I need to be able to hear the amp before purchase, preferably at a local shop (SF Bay Area)
- New or used ok
- Large sound stage
- Bass
- More Bass... all the bass
- Very much prefer stereo to fit in my rack. I have small children and not enough room for monos.
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
- 15/20A or something I can plug into a regular wall outlet

My Current List of options
- Luxman M900u (current top of list)
- Ayre VX-R Twenty
- Pass Labs XA160.8 (doesn't meet all of my guidance)
- Boulder 2160 (a little above budget)
- Audio Research 160S (doesn't meet all of my guidance)

My Current Setup
- AMG Viella Turbo Turntable w/ Koetsu Onyx Platinum Cartridge
- Boulder 508 Phono Stage
- Mytek Manhattan II DAC (next upgrade after the amp - maybe a dCS Bartok?)
- Audio Research Reference 6 line stage
- McIntosh MC452 power amplifier
- B&W 802D3 speakers
- AudioQuest and Nordost cabling or a Symposium Osiris rack

What I listen to: Anything from the 60s on vinyl, some things from the 70s on vinyl. A lot of large orchestral and jazz, also a fair amount of pop, from any decade, on vinyl and digital. Thanks for reading my long post! I'll keep this thread updated with amps I hear. Lots of great shops in the area. My two favorites are The Analog Room in Campbell and Music Lovers Audio in Oakland and SF.
Ag insider logo xs@2xmayoradamwest
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,846 posts
 
- Prefer not tubes (already have a tube line stage - too hot for small children and don't fit in rack)
- I'm ok with a colored sound. Prefer musicality and realism over "accuracy" or "neutrality"
- Needs an absolute minimum of 150W based on how loud I listen
@mayoradamwest  A lot of us older audiophiles grew up with exposed tubes. If kids know they are 'hot' they stay away- otherwise a stove in the house might not be a good idea either :)  Even a class A solid state amp is going to be hot- such an amp will make 85-90% of the same heat made by a class A tube amp of the same power. The heat of tubes comes from their class of operation, not their filaments. Most solid state amps make less heat because they are 'AB' but they are biased so lightly that they are much closer to 'B' than 'A'. This is why solid state amps have a reputation for being cooler for the most part.

 Some tube amps do fit into a rack. But if you are looking for a warmer, more musical presentation, tubes might be the only way to go. But I agree with @almarg  your speakers present difficulty for tube amplifiers. If I were looking at this I'd also be looking at a speaker that is easier to drive and this would be true even if I was staying with solid state. The simple fact of the matter is that **all** amplifiers make higher distortion into lower impedances and difficult phase angles! The distortion I'm talking about is higher ordered harmonic distortion, which will be audible as brightness, harshness and reduced detail. By simply using a speaker of higher impedance you can get any amplifier to have a smoother and more detailed presentation. And make no mistake: many people conflate brightness with detail and the two are not the same!

Ag insider logo xs@2x
mayoradamwest OP
430 posts
 
I’m not sure about all of this chatter about how my speakers don’t work with tubes but maybe they will if I get the right amp or whatnot. I said I didn’t want a tube amp. I’ve got a tube line stage. That’s enough tube for me. Looking forward to trying several of the amps suggested here over the coming weeks. 
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
mayoradamwest OP

almarg
The impedance curves shown in John Atkinson’s measurements of your speaker indicate, on paper at least, that the speaker is highly unfriendly to tube amplification. Especially in key parts of the bass region that you are concerned with, e.g. 50 to 100 Hz or so, taking into account the phase angle plot as well as the impedance magnitude.
Totally agree with Al on this, I might just add that the -64 phase angle combined with the low impedance at 70hz could be seen by the amp as 2ohm or even lower.

But because the 802d’s are 91db, only 50watts will do the trick, so long as you don’t want party levels..
But!!!! that 50w needs to almost double to 4ohm 100w and again to 2ohms 200w, to make sure the amp has good current, and it needs to do that without breaking a sweat, and stay stable doing it.
Solid state amps with bjt (bi-polar) output stages will be your best best.

This will do a magnificent job, and you can select your own amount of Class-A bias on the front on the run, also good for hot days, just back it off.
https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/power-amplifiers/antileon-evo-stereo/
or the cheaper Mephisto https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/power-amplifiers/mephisto/


Cheers George
mrc4u
60 posts
 
I second the Gryphon Diablo 300 recommendation!  For the money, there are few integrated or even separate amps that are in its class.

Very powerful and gives very nice bass.  Not overly punchy, but cool and organic.
truman
167 posts
 
You should be able to get great bass now with the McIntosh (the Grateful Dead always did). I've always thought the Nordost line sounded bright. Try different cables - which, I know, is another entire thread. 
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