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Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?

Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
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mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Mike then we agree, knock yourself out. I'm sure it is a lot of fun for you. I would rather spend my limited money on stuff that would make a substantial difference like ear plugs for my wife:)
Anvil, stylus friction is going to have the same effect regardless of bearing friction. A system with more power and inertia might not be effected as much. How the motor is coupled makes no difference. Pulsating magnetic forces under a very sensitive magnetic device is just asking for it. This is the reason most of us think direct drive tables sound terrible. I am certainly one of those although I am always open to new designs like the Monaco. There is no reason to even go there. Any improvement in speed accuracy over a good belt drive table is inaudible. It is easier to make a silent bearing if you do not have a motor wrapped around it and you do not have to worry at all about stray magnetic fields as the power of a magnetic field drops with the square of the distance. 
Guyw3, that would certainly work but is more difficult to set up. Most of us just throw a strobe disc on the record while playing and set the speed while the record is playing. 

anvil_turntables's avatar
anvil_turntables
53 posts
 
Dude, quit while your behind :)
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 
uberwaltz
I routinely run my TT,s and my R2R ever so slightly fast deliberately just for that sense of extra attack, drive and dynamics.

Hi Kevin 
I know a guy that actually likes the speed a little slower.

Some of my fondest music memories are of listening to music groups/bands in nightclubs on a regular basis, before the whole marriage/kids, and lack of time ....
The tempo of the performance was never the same, night after night from same bands. In fact it seemed to me that the tempo for a specific night was set, based on the state of how the drummer showed up. *^)

uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Hey Chris
You know that really got me thinking.
You are so right as I now remember listening to live tapes of our band from different nights and yes the tempo was different night to night.
I mastered our "sessions" into a tape I considered good enough to sell at venues and/or send off as a demo tape so always chose the best performance of each song whether they were from the same show or not.

We are human beings not machines so a live performance IS going to differ ever so slightly every time.
And probably true that myself (bass ) and our drummer might have ultimately drove that tempo overall.

And here we are with people worrying about 0.001% speed difference.
Lol.
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
i have maybe 20+ recordings of Beethoven’s 5th and double that of the 9th.

every one has a slightly different tempo. even by the same conductor and orchestra.

none are really wrong. just different. i do have my favorites.

which is a different issue than tonal solidity verses that very distrating slightly wa-wa sour sound of speed discontinuity.
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