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Who needs a Diamond Cantilever...? 💍

So suddenly, there seems to be a trend for Uber-LOMC cartridges released with Diamond Cantilevers...😱
As if the High-End MC cartridges were not already overpriced....?!
Orofon have released the MC-ANNA-DIAMOND after previously releasing the Limited Edition MC-CENTURY...also with Diamond Cantilever.
Then there’s the KOETSU BLOODSTONE PLATINUM and DYNAVECTOR KARAT 17D2 and ZYX ULTIMATE DIAMOND and probably several more.

But way back in 1980....Sony released a Diamond-Cantilevered version of its fine XL-88 LOMC Cartridge.
Imaginatively....they named this model the XL-88D and, because it was the most expensive phono cartridge in the world (costing 7500DM which was more expensive than a Volkswagen at the time)....Sony, cleverly disguised this rare beast to look EXACTLY like its ’cheap’ brother with its complex hybrid cantilever of "special light metal held by a carbon-fibre pipe both being held again by a rigid aluminium pipe".
The DIAMOND CANTILEVER on the 88D however......was a thing of BEAUTY and technological achievement, being formed from ONE PIECE OF DIAMOND including the stylus 🤯🙏🏽

I’ve owned the XL-88 for many years and recently discovered that it was my best (and favourite) cartridge when mounted in the heavy Fidelity Research S-3 Headshell on the SAEC WE-8000/ST 12" Tonearm around my VICTOR TT-101 TURNTABLE.
Without knowing this in advance.....I would not have been prepared to bid the extraordinary prices (at a Japanese Auction Site) that these rare cartridges keep commanding.
To find one in such STUNNING CONDITION with virtually no visible wear was beyond my expectations 😃

So how does it sound.....?
Is there a difference to the standard XL-88?
Is the Diamond Cantilever worth the huge price differential?
Is the Pope a Catholic....?

This cartridge simply ’blows my mind’...which is hard to do when I’ve had over 80 cartridges on 10 different arms mounted on two different turntables 🤯
As Syntax said on another Thread:-
When you have 2 identical carts, one regular cantilever and the other one with diamond cantilever (Koetsu Stones for example), the one with diamond cantilever shows more details, is a bit sharper in focus and the soundstage is a bit deeper and wider. They can sound a bit more detailed overall with improved dynamics
I’ll leave it at that for the time being. I will soon upload to YouTube, the sound comparisons between the two Sony versions on my HEAR MY CARTRIDGES THREAD.

But now I’ve bought myself a nightmarish scenario.......
There is no replacement stylus for this cartridge!
There is no replacement cantilever for this cartridge!
Each time I play records with it, I am ’killing’ it a bit more 🥴😥
If I knew how long I had left to live......I could program my ’listening sessions’ 🤪
But failing this.....I can’t help but feel slightly uncomfortable listening to this amazing machine.
128x128halcro
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 
Dear chakster, ''designers mentioned by Nandric are all retired or
dead''. Well Reto Andreoli just produced successor  of his Magic
Diamond while our former member Dertonarm is still going
strong. Ikeda passed away this year and produced two new
carts with aluminum cantilever two(?) years ago:  Ikeda 9 TT and 9TS.  You should update your (carts) encyclopedia (grin).
Promoting MM kinds in order to better compare cantilevers will
not work for me.  
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 
Parts and wholes. Our eloquent architect from Australia should
as such introduce this thread with some kind of, uh, introduction.
We all know that an building consist of ''parts'' but also that the
most look different while among them some are called ''artist''
and the other ''ordinary''. 
We have also heard this confusing ''explanation'' that the
whole is ''more'' than the number of parts  questioning our
''proven'' number theory. There is the aggregation method of
''putting parts'' together but also ''coalition'' or ''composition''.
Equal or similar parts can be put together as a heap and also
count like money. But ''composition'' can be best illustrated
with musical composer. Why can we hear differences between
Mozart , Bach, Wagner, etc. ?  Is an musical work ''distinct 
quality'' on its own? Such that we can separate one from the
other. Does this also apply for carts designers such that we
can hear differences between Ikeda and Van den Hul ,etc.?
There is also ''causal'' explanation versus reasons explanation.
The first assume some binary relation between cause ''a'' and
effect ''b'' while reasons can be more than two. Then there are
the old Aristetotelian ''essential'' and ''accidental'' properties of
objects. The ''essential'' assume a priori knowledge because
finding out what quality objects have is a function of time and
search.
So how should we deal  with one single part in the ''whole''
of an cartridge construction or ''composition''? 
By comparison between two ''identical carts'' with different
single part? (equal and ''identical'' are different animals)


chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@nandric I have no idea who is Reto Andreoli (and our Dertonarm as a cartridge designer), but i respect japanese school of cartridge design from the masters like Takeda and Ikeda, at least i own some of their best cartridges. And yes, all with aluminum cantilever. Takeda’s last work was for 47 Labs before he retired. I don’t think Ikeda (R.I.P.) personally made any cartridges at his age in the past 10 years or so. But i am waiting for Ikeda IT-345 tonearm soon for the Miyajima Kansui cartridge (also with aluminum cantilever).
folkfreak's avatar
folkfreak
1,349 posts
 
@chakster by "dertonarm" Nandric means Dietrich Brakemeier of Acoustical Systems. All of his cartridges including the top of the range Palladian which @halcro and I both use have aluminium cantilevers and sound (to my ears at least) first rate. Considering his use of exotic materials in other aspects of these models I presume he's chosen Al for the cantilever as he believes this works best.

I believe dertonarm was the Audiogon ID Dietrich used to use when he hung out in these parts back in the day ...
dover
2,229 posts
 
@halcro 

It’s impossible via the YouTube Videos to hear the ephemeral nuances that I hear in my room....things like soundstage (side to side and back to back), transparency, imaging, image height etc

Hi Halcro - in my view, even on standard mac ibuds/Macair,  it's quite easy to here significant differences between the XL88 & XL88D.

In some ways the 1st comparision was more revealing - the base line on the XL88D has much better timing and resolution. The XL88 by comparison has no timing at all on the base line, its all over the place. There is more information around the base line in paricular, harmonic fulness and detail. The high frequencies on the XL88D are crisper and appear to be significantly more transparent.

On the second recording again the timing is better, more transparent through the while range, by that I mean you can hear more body, harmonic completeness and sustain and decay of notes. Piano is  much more purposeful on the XL88D ( and more real ). 

As an aside, on your comparision of the Palladian and XL88 on the other thread the mid to top end of the XL88 sounded identical to the old Madrigal Carnegie on baroque music both of which I listen to a lot. The Carnegie was a Sony XLMC9 rebadged. Your comment about "vintage cartridges" is a little misnomer as Sony Soundtech designed these cartridges to be the ultimate analogue ( triple layer cantilevers of boron/carbon & aluminium, newly designed figure 8 coil layout and the Sony motor design was adopted by both Van den hul & Benz. The Early Van den hul MC1/Benz Ref/Carnegie are virtually identical.

I do note however the bass being still a little vague on the SAEC/XL88 on the baroque ( noticeable because the mid to top end is so good ) and would encourage you to find a lighter more rigid headshell - these Sony's are medium compliance and their suspensions are not robust. Again I believe the Cobra tonearm would provide the same improvements with the Sony XL's as you experienced with the Palladian over the SAEC.

I know from personal experience the Sony XL88D performed extremely well on the Dynavector tonearm I own, significantly better than on the SAEC 407/23 used on the same turntable.

Finally, congrats on the acquisition of the XL88D, one day it will be no more, but at least you have had the pleasure of hearing it for a while, a very special cartridge.


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