Please Make Audiogon Cool

OK, I'VE GOT something to contribute here, and "I" think it's cool in a weird way. I have a big, heavy, and very good-sounding system in the living room. It's pretty expensive gear, but I built it up over many years, upgrading a little at a time.
But I ALSO have a (miserable in comparison) non-audiophile system in my bedroom-
Teac compact components (8.5 in. wide) driving JBL "studio" 6in. 3-way speakers. Std. wire except for one pair of Audioquest Lapis connecting the CD player. It's not even quite up to Mid-Fi standards. There's no imaging, no stage, no silky highs. But... it's not all that bad, either. Plenty of bass when called for. It's clean sounding up to pretty loud volumes (35W/Ch). It looks nice and can play most any kind of music as well.
Why is it my ears don't discriminate that much anymore? I'm not questioning the validity of the delicate nuances coming out of a great speaker system, but I can ALSO listen to music on just about anything.
Except- an esoteric set of components that sounds unacceptional (but the "Watts" are certainly there if you're hosting a house party). I think we all know the disappointment of hearing a demo and have to be diplomatic with the salesman who wants you to be amazed. Of course the flip side of this is when the store has an irresistibly good sounding system that costs four times what you can afford, but you "know" that's the kind of gear you always dreamed of having.
The overall point here is that satisfaction is a complicated emotion- and what if all you want to hear is Black Sabbath at concert volume? Who can say what kind of system "you really need" to make you happy?

roberttcan
It will be difficult to make this a welcoming place for engineers and scientists because they will quickly tire of the attacks of the Wikipedia experts and those enamored and convinced of the infallibility of their ears and brains, even though confirmation bias is well understood in psychology and the foibles of non-controlled subjective audio testing were put to bed by actual audio engineers decades ago.

>>>>>Nobody is saying that the ears can’t be fooled sometimes. But certainly not always. Give us a break! Familiarity with one’s system and recordings can help ensure not many mistakes are made. And experience. So, I declare that we can summarily dismiss any psychological bugaboo, whether it’s being psyched out, confirmation bias, placebo effect, reverse placebo effect or whatever other mumbo jumbo terminology you like.

I’ve already used the term Wiki scientist, it’s what I labeled you, actually.  So, please stop using my material. Have you no shame?

“Many of you will go on to big things. The rest of you will become audio engineers.” - Commencement address at Audio school. 😬

WHAT CAN BE ASSERTED WITHOUT EVIDENCE,

CAN BE DISMISSED WITHOUT EVIDENCE.

Your argument is easily dismissed as you have no evidence to support your position, nor are you willing to provide evidence via proving your claim.

 Report thisgeoffkait17,625 posts10-22-2019 5:02pm
>>>>>Nobody is saying that the ears can’t be fooled sometimes. But intimacy with one’s system and recordings can help ensure not many mistakes are made. So, we can dismiss any psychological bugaboo, whether it’s being psyched out, confirmation bias, placebo effect, reverse placebo effect or whatever other mumbo jumbo terminology you like.


Yes, I have noticed your use of ad-homs when you are not able to address the argument. It is not something to be proud of.


"I’ve already used the term Wiki scientist, it’s what I labeled you, actually, so please stop using my material. Have you no shame?"

See Erik,

I rest my point. Any actual engineers and scientists in the audio field, are quickly turned off by stuff like this, which has no basis in fact, for which the author will be unwilling and unable to support with evidence ....

With confirmation bias, placebo effect, and a host of other human foibles so well established (by actual scientists), one has to wonder both why someone would make an assertion like this that is provably wrong, and why they would not be willing to prove the assertion.


 Report thisgeoffkait17,625 posts10-22-2019 5:02pm
>>>>>Nobody is saying that the ears can’t be fooled sometimes. But intimacy with one’s system and recordings can help ensure not many mistakes are made. So, we can dismiss any psychological bugaboo, whether it’s being psyched out, confirmation bias, placebo effect, reverse placebo effect or whatever other mumbo jumbo terminology you like.😬

You know Erik_squires, there is one thing that would make these forums, and most audio forums better. I am okay with being anonymous, in today’s "cancel culture" I don’t blame people.

However, I think if people have to clearly state whether they earned money from the audio industry, AND, clearly state the type of products they deal with and whether they are a MFR, dealer, installer, etc. then it would allow others on the forums to better judge for themselves whether self-interest was influencing a particular posters writings.

Here, I will go first. I currently earn about 25-35% of my income (sometimes higher, sometimes lower) from the audio industry, through my companies design consulting on advanced product design for electronics, acoustics, and signal processing and some dedicated test and measurement gear, as well as some royalties for past designs and we box-build some items. It all depends on the agreed revenue/business model with the client. I have previously earned 100% of my income in the industry doing similar things, electronics, acoustics, signal processing, and in management and sales/marketing.