2. analog
  3. 140043-486

Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
I’m glad you like the recording Frogman 😃
And ’technically’.....I didn’t call ’it’ Baroque 🤭
I merely commented that Dover (I believe) loves Baroque music....🤥😜
Hahaha....
I must say that I am quite taken aback with the excellence of the sound of the Sony.
I’m thrilled to hear you say this 🥳
Although I didn’t doubt what I was hearing when I proclaimed it "my best and favourite cartridge"....I was a little nervous that you, coming at it from a slightly different angle....may discover some flaws which had eluded me 😥
What wonderful confirmation it is, that the YouTube videos are indeed capable of transmitting the ’Magic’ of such a subtle and ephemeral ’link’ in the audio chain.
As a result there is a greater sense of separation of the instruments in the room’s acoustic while the Palladian seems to “crowd” them together.
So impressed that you can actually define the "room’s acoustic"...Because that’s where this cartridge redefines (for me) the ability of the audio chain to bring one closer to ’the real thing’.
And even I can hear that effect (somewhat diffused) in the videos 👂
I loved the sound of the Sony and I think you are justified in your excitement over it. I would love to hear it playing something more complex than this music to see how it handles a full orchestra for instance. A three way shootout between the Sony, Palladian and Decca? 😃
You’ve got it.....🤗
Thanks again for your ’feedback’ Frogman.....
You’ve made me an even happIER man....💍
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Clash of the Titans
The three BEST cartridges in my current collection

AS PALLADIAN LOMC Cartridge

LONDON DECCA REFERENCE MI Cartridge

SONY XL-88D LOMC Cartridge-Diamond Cantilever
dover
2,273 posts
 
@halcro cc @frogman
Hi, apologies for tardiness, still waiting for the Baroque !!

For the 1st comparison Palladian vs Sony I was quite shocked at what appears to me ( ibuds as usual ) considerably more resolution with the Sony. Is it my imagination or not - compared to the previous clip with the Sony XL88D - the Sony appears to have fleshed out and opened up, like it is still runnning in. If it has been on the shelf for a long period as the suspension limbers up you may have yet more to come.

Agree with Frogmans observations, but I would add that the Palladian to my ears homogenises individual instruments and their harmonic structures and overtones merge together, whereas the Sony keeps the individual instruments clearly separated and the individual harmonic structures, overtones of each instrument etc remain attached to those respective instruments ( each retaining its character ). For me the Sony is vastly more transparent, reminding me of what I briefly heard some 30 years ago. Each instrument exists within its own space.

The one area where I feel the Palladian MAY have the upper hand is in how it portrays subtle phrasing details. The little rhythmic pushes and pulls by the viola da gamba player at times seem to have just a little bit more energy and musical purpose with the Palladian. Along the same lines, the performance at times sounds ever so slightly slower with the Sony. All this is EXTREMELY subtle and I think it is probably a psychoacoustic effect of the Sony’s more fleshed out and richer tonal qualities. Often, a leaner tonal signature gives the illusion of greater speed.
This reminds me of an experience many years ago, when upgrading a cartridge to one that was vastly more transparent I thought it was slow initially. This disappeared in short time, and pondering this I had a theory that because there was so much more information to absorb and process, the brain was tricked into believing the music was longer and slower - sort of like when Formula 1 drivers get into the zone and time slows.

I do agree with Frogman there are psychoacoustical effects.
I recall listening to a Mercury Living Presence recording on a Phillips reissue and simply did not recognise the performance even though I had the original Mercury pressing. I was convinced the performance on Phillips was ponderous and slow - further investigation revealed the records were identical, but the Phillips reissue had been remixed destroying the ebb and flow of the music.

Thanks for posting the comparison - even via video there is much to hear.

dover
2,273 posts
 
@halcro cc @frogman

Palladian/London Decca Reference/Sony XL

Great music. Beautiful.
In a nutshell firstly comparing the Palladian to the Decca, again ibuds, the Decca wins, most notably I can hear the chest and body of the female choristers, even individually. On the Palladian it sounds like they are singing from the top of their throat - no chest. The Decca more accurately conveys the full weight of the choristers and the room acoustics.

Then comparing the Sony XL88D to the Decca - wow. More transparent and the majesty of the performance and the completeness of the full orchestral spectrum conveyed by the Sony is fabulous. There appears to be more chest/body with the choristers from the Decca, but the vocals from uppermids to top end on the Sony appear far more transparent. As the full orchestra comes in the Sony is simply wonderful, the most complete cartridge for me of the three..    

At this point I am done with comparisons - could you please just send me the Sony for Xmas. Now back to the music....


dover
2,273 posts
 
PP
Still listening to the Sony whilst I'm posting, will be interesting to hear from Frogman, to my ears I'm hearing far more of the individual tonal colours of individual voices and the orchestral instruments appear far more realistic in tonal colour and timbre with this cartridge. 
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