So many great golden era DD tables out there, what do you recommend for $1000?


Pretty much as the title says.
Have been looking for a while for a decent DD table to add to my lot.
Have bought a few lower end ones and ultimately been dissapointed.
Now I know there were/ are literally hundreds of choices from the Japanese Golden era of DD tables.
Looking for suggestions from actual owners of solid DD tables up to about $1000 .
I have read and read but nothing substitutes for real experience.
This would likely not be my primary table, my Garrard 401 has that position for now.

Thank you.
128x128uberwaltz
I tried to find a way to keep a post in support of this thread short and directed to a particular DD TT, but the thread has bounced around with a variety of suggestions and pointers, resulting in my wanting to share more broadly.
Firstly and unusually I have viewed every post on this thread, and many posters
recommendations are known for their valued performances, as comparisons to much more expensive Vintage and Modern TT’s.
There has also been the inclusion of Idler Drive and Belt Drive TT’s, which I have not gauged any real follow up interest in, so I am assuming the OP is keeping their focus on the DD options being proposed.
I am not going to go into too much discussion on the differences between the various designs drive mechanics, but there is a very good white paper from Brinkman that will give clear descriptions on the differences in the designs and how they will effect a operation of a device, as well as outline the design considerations that are required to alleviate the negative aspects of each design.
I will recommend this as a reading material, and welcome one to have a cup of coffee and and a browse.
My experiences with Idler Drives and Belt Drives, has been a long journey,
I don’t propose that I have had the best TT’s out there, Garrard, Lenco and Linn are my experiences through ownership.
Where I have ended up is that to extract the very best from these types of devices as Vintage Products, a servicing consideration is best actioned, Bearing Servicing, Motor Servicing, Drive Material Exchange, i.e Idler Wheel Rubber or Rubber Belt.
Wth the above out of the way, then a consideration for the Plinth or Chassis material will yield very noticeable inprovements in the delivery.
If a consideration for how the mounting set up the TT is to be placed on, then much more performance benfits will be noticed.
When the above is in place, there is one last addition that will have a very impressionable effect on the performance, and that is to add a
Stand Alone, Speed Control/Mains Conditioning Power Supply.
These Power Supply Devices come at a cost and if they are capable of being Quartz Locked to a particular frequency, then a $1000+ for a recognised Brand is close to the ball park cost.
That is a substantial outlay to attempt to achieve a noticable improvement in a performance from a TT, and many have been carrying out this method for many years.
There is another way though where all the outlined considerations stated are reshuffled, as the process sort of reverses itself when going down this road,
which will result in the robbing of the investigator of the wonderment created by adding a high quality Speed Controller/Mains Conditioner as the finale to their endeavours.
So here goes for the outlay of a appoximation of $1000, there is a TT available with a built into the design Quartz Locked Speed Controlled/Mains Conditioning
Power Supply, which is generically known as a DD Turntable.
The DD TT adds up to a lot of TT for the outlay, and through its fundamental design, has a excellent power supply, equivelent or better than stand alone end game power supplies that other TT’s designs aspire to.
Also for the $1000 dollars, especially if the most noted DD TT’s are being considered, there is a high quality bearing working with a TT design that will generate less noise than any of the other designs.
In my view the DD as a TT is a very worthy place to go when it comes to having a
TT. To date I have got a fully overhauled SP10 MKII with works carried out by a renouned EE on this design.
I have a Original Spec TS 8000 and a TS 8000 udergoing major surgery under the hood to completely alter the methods used by the manufacturers build.
I will soon have a DP-80, as well as a model not referred to on this thread, that I will inform the OP of next.
I was informed by a individual of a Vintage DD TT they have been trialling, this idividual has a access to very expensive equipment as their profession is in HiFi retail.
The individual has another hobby, and that is Vintage equipment and offering evaluations, this is not part of their business model, it is just good old inquisitiveness.
The better performing discovered items are compared to very expensive modern items to make a reference.
In the case of this thread the Individual rated the Micro Seiki DDX 1500 as a TT that will hold itself with some of the high priced modern brands it has been compared to, I trust the reporting so see no real reason to doubt the statement.
I have shared personnal mails with this person to gather further info on their reporting on cetain devices, and been satisfied with the description on offer.
Not too long ago the Aurex SR 510 was a new contender in the position to be evaluated, I was not too interested, as the Brand was not Hip, but I read on out of interest, and when I learnt that the reporting on the performance was being compared to the Micro Seiki DDX 1500 that got me very interested.
To learn that this comparison was drawn from a SR 510 with the Stock Tonearm and built in Phonostage, I was more than intrigued to say the least.
In a mail there was a discussion about the percieved improvements that might be had from a exchanged Tonearm ad bypassing the inbuilt Phonostage, and all roads lead to, ’I’m getting one’.
I have got one for me and one for a friend, it will be with me soon and given fair lore to show itself off in the company of the other TT’s.
Strangley I feel very confident for it.
I will report back on the listening experience when I feel sure of the evaluation.



Kenwood

KD-650

KD-750L-07D

KD-2055 belt drive cousin of 500/600 $250

Without Arms

KD-500KD-600


Sony PS-1150 belt driven

PS-8750 close to Kenwood L-07D $1,000


Sony PUA-1600S carbon fiber arm Very Nice


PS-X3 $280

PS-X5 $250

PS-X7 $200

PS-X6 $500

Sony TTS-8000


Yamaha

YP-D8YP-D10 $704

YP-D10 $975

YP-D10 $1,000

YP-D9 (Japanese model) $1,000

PF-1000PF-800 $1,500

GT-750 $1,350

Gt-1000 $2,500

GT-2000 $2,200


Tone Arms

Grace G-707

SME 2 or 3 3009 $1,000

Jelco SA-750D

Technics EPA-100 $1,500

bigkidz,
I looked up the Sony 8750 on Vintage Knob. Some photos suggest it has a coreless motor.  Do you know whether it does or not?  If it does, then maybe it might be a stealth L07D, as you suggest.
I don't think anyone would say that a Yamaha GT1000 is worth more in the marketplace than a GT2000. I'd say that both the GT750 and the GT1000 could be had for less than $1000 or maybe a very little more than $1000, in the case of the GT1000.
Is there a reason golden age DD turntables became golden age?  Or conversely, why did the high-end move to belt-drive? 

I think there is.

Fundamentally, golden age DD tables employed a PLL (phased-locked loop) to stabilize rotational velocity to a very accurate degree.  The problem herein is that the frequency response of this negative feedback loop (that's what a PLL is) is right in the middle of the audio band, sitting on top of vocals.  Yeah.  So for every disturbance or increase in stylus drag, there is a corresponding error term which gets amplified a drives a proportional (PID actually) response in the motor to compensate, adding it's own signature.  

I'm pretty sure Fremer pointed this out a long time ago. 

A DD may have an easy time hitting 33.3333 RPM long term average, but short term in-audio-band response may become audible and annoying.  In short, that's why a decent belt-driven table is more relaxing and less fatiguing over the long term.

Thoughts?