Each recording has one right volume level.

I think most people here will be familiar with Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curves? In summary, how that applies to audio listening, is that the perceived tonal balance is heavily dependent on listening volume.

Right. So right in fact that if you want to take the time to read through my posts you’ll see I’ve mentioned and expounded on this many times. Considering the enormously edifying experience of reading my posts, well worth the time.

Anyway, where was I? Oh yes- you are definitely on the right track. There’s even articles written by mastering engineers covering this exact aspect of mastering. Briefly, they know that because perceived frequency response varies with volume that no matter what they do the recording can at best sound good at only one volume level. Played less loud the bass will be lacking. Played louder it will be overwhelming. (I'm mentioning bass but this applies across the band, check it out and see.) They have to strike a balance. The reasoning they use is the people playing at low volume aren’t listening that closely and so won’t mind or maybe even notice things being off. Those playing it louder are more likely to care. So they dial it in to the volume level they think the most discerning listeners will be most likely to be playing it at.

But that’s only the first part of the equation. The second is what happens with the system and room when audiophiles enter the picture. Because the same Fletcher-Munson perception applies as well in your listening room as their recording studio.

This is where too any audiophiles screw up. Using meters, which are not ears and so do not "perceive" let alone experience Fletcher-Munson perceived level that varies with volume, they set things up to be "flat" and not by ear but by meter. They never consider what sounds flat only sounds flat at that one volume level.

So, in other words, not only does each recording have one volume level it has been engineered to sound right at, but so does each system. The only difference is the engineers are aware of this. Audiophiles, not so much.

Basically the volume level of a given CD is a function of its dynamic range. That’s why one is inclined to turn the volume knob higher (or lower) for some CDs relative to the one you just played. The louder the CD sounds at a given volume setting the lower the dynamic range. Example, Mercury Living Presence classical CDs generally have high dynamic range. So when you first play one you’ll notice the volume is rather low for when the volume knob is set at. That is to account for the large dynamic swings that come later, you know, so you won’t blow up your tweeters or woofers.

So, there is a happy medium for CDs with high dynamic range, where you can select the right volume and get the full dynamics of the recording. It’s subjective to some extent, obviously. That’s what the Loudness War is all about - providing high volume level but overly compressed dynamic range. Yuk! So, I’d say the trade-off is not volume for tonality, it’s volume for dynamic range.

"Played less loud the bass will be lacking. Played louder it will be overwhelming."

Millercarbons comment reinforces my belief that a subwoofers  adjustment IS NOT "set and forget" That's if you're in audio geek mode, and not just enjoying the music. I find an acceptable medium, then forget.

A remote, like the REL G series,  to play "mix engineer" makes sense to me. Apologies for hijacking thread.

While I think I know what you are trying to communicate at this point, I am not sure I agree completely. If the recording is "flat" or at least as intended, then the playback should be "flat" as well at least to sound as intended at the volume level intended and you are going to get closer to that with a meter than with your ears. In theory, at least at the recording level, all vagaries of the Fletcher Munson curve have already been taking into account (within the limits of the recording engineers listening equipment).
If you are moving away from the intended playback level, and of course that would vary in level from recording to recording, then no, a flat response would not be ideal if you wish to experience the tonal balance of what the recording engineer/artist intended. The problem is, by ears or by meter, you are always going to be wrong to some level.

millercarbon1,869 posts11-02-2019 1:53am

I think most people here will be familiar with Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curves? In summary, how that applies to audio listening, is that the perceived tonal balance is heavily dependent on listening volume.

But that’s only the first part of the equation. The second is what happens with the system and room when audiophiles enter the picture. Because the same Fletcher-Munson perception applies as well in your listening room as their recording studio.

This is where too any audiophiles screw up. Using meters, which are not ears and so do not "perceive" let alone experience Fletcher-Munson perceived level that varies with volume, they set things up to be "flat" and not by ear but by meter. They never consider what sounds flat only sounds flat at that one volume level.

I think your comment, "volume for tonality, it's volume for dynamic range" misses the point of my post. My point is that if you want to hear the recording as intended you either need to listen to it at the volume it was mixed and mastered at, or you need to equalize with the Fletcher Monson curves as your guide between the intended volume and your listening volume. That won't be perfect, but would be "better"
Dynamic compression is a completely different topic. That is a choice made at the mixing/mastering stage, which is still done at a specific volume.

geoffkait17,910 posts11-02-2019 6:14amBasically the volume level of a given CD is a function of its dynamic range. That’s why one is inclined to turn the volume knob higher (or lower) for some CDs relative to the one you just played. The louder the CD sounds at a given volume setting the lower the dynamic range. Example, Mercury Living Presence classical CDs generally have high dynamic range. So when you first play one you’ll notice the volume is rather low for when the volume knob is set at. That is to account for the large dynamic swings that come later, you know, so you won’t blow up your tweeters or woofers.

So, there is a happy medium for CDs with high dynamic range, where you can select the right volume and get the full dynamics of the recording. It’s subjective to some extent, obviously. That’s what the Loudness War is all about - providing high volume level but overly compressed dynamic range. Yuk!

So, I’d say the trade-off is not volume for tonality, it’s volume for dynamic range.