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Phono Preamp Tube Rush

Is there such a thing as a tube phono stage that doesn't have tube rush? Is it just an inherent weakness of that type of pre or is it some combination of cartridge gain and preamp gain? I went from a silent solid state ASR Basis Exclusive to a Herron VTPH-2A (new home with space limitations) and now I'm using a Hagerman Trumpet with my Decca London Super Gold. Both the Herron and Hagerman have tube rush. The Hagerman beats the Herron in my setup and it really sounds incredible but in quiet passages and between songs, there's that hiss at high-medium and high volume. It's just there. No combination of new tubes, new cables, etc changes this fact. Same with the Herron. Anyone having a different experience with a tube phono preamp?
dhcod
hagtech
175 posts
 
Between songs you hear LP groove noise.  Lift the tonearm and I bet it gets much quieter.  Then you will hear self-noise from input resistance and tubes.  

An good SUT can wonders, as they are mostly noiseless.  But not always.  If they use too thin of wire the resistance gets too high and becomes the main source of input noise.  The low-end Cinemag was like this (maybe they have since updated).

Mostly what you hear is noise from resistance, not tubes.  
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,913 posts
 
I use a number of Deccas inc the SG and cannot recall this issue with my Croft 25R with Shuguang Black 12AX7LS. But then again, between vinyl roar, and tape hiss on older recordings, you’re making me second guess what I feel is a near silent amp. In my book, if there’s no trace of 60 or 120Hz anything, I’m golden!
roberjerman
4,319 posts
 
It is difficult to build a high-gain phono stage for mc cartridges using tubes. A SUT or a SS head amp (like a Marcof) is the answer (feeding a tube mm stage).
slaw's avatar
slaw
21,967 posts
 
I used a BD's Cinemag 3440-A through my EAR 834 P through the mm stage with a Dyna D3 and had no issues.

I still have the SUT if there's any interest.
lewm
13,266 posts
 
hagtech, In explaining that SUTs can be a source of noise, you wrote, "If they use too thin of wire the resistance gets too high and becomes the main source of input noise."  What???  Where does that idea come from? To begin with, the primary of a SUT is seeing the miniscule output voltage of typically a LOMC cartridge, like 0.5mV of AC, or less.

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