How much do you need to spend to get digital to rival analog?

I am full of preposterous blanket wet noodle statements and totally politically incorrect which is intentional.  

You said it bud.....

rauliruegas,
The problem with your statement is it takes a simplistic approach to "information".
I won’t disagree with you that digital, especially high resolution digital contains within it more raw information, but let’s look at a really simple example:

A CD is 1411 bkps to achieve 44100 samples/second at 16 bits and 2 channels.

What if we had an uncompressed signal at 128kbps? ... That would allow us to do say 2 channels, 10 bits, 6400 samples/sec or 3.2KHz. We could do 8 bits, at get up to 4KHz. Not too terribly impressive huh?

How do you think 8 bits at 8ksps would sound compared to a 128kbps MP3 or AAC? It would sound awful by comparison even though technically both have the same amount of information.

Why does the MP3 sound better for the same raw information? Because the MP3 concentrates the information into areas in which the brain can make use of it.

Perhaps due to dynamic compression during the mixing/mastering process, other intentional choices made during mixing and mastering, even what we consider limitations during playback, we are maximizing the audio information that the brain can take in. Perhaps that inherent "filtering" that a turntable does maximizes the useful audio information that the brain can take in my minimizing extraneous information that can cause information overload. I am more of a digital guy, but even I feel this happens at times.

That information limit will be different for different people. That could even explain why some love vinyl, and some, not so much. I think it could also speak to the listening fatigue that some claim to experience when listening to digital. It is simply information overload, especially when coupled with "loudness wars" information levels which could be considered extreme.

You could make arguments against this, like, "why are high end DACs" then viewed as being closer to vinyl? I would counter with, who is making those statements and why is their brain telling them that and why do some of those DACs measure so poorly. Why do non-OS R2R DACs sounds better (only to some). Perhaps the high frequency artifacts that modulate into the audio band mask additional information allowing the brain to concentrate on what it most wants to hear?

rauliruegas9,612 posts11-11-2019 10:24amWhy do you want to replicate the analog experience that’s wrong and different medium where you lost a huge signal amount of information and where adds a lot of non recorded signal information. Digital is truer to the recording to what recording microphones pick-up?:

My experience with live recordings using a Tandberg 310 back in the early 1980s with chrome? Sony and TDK top cassettes had really low noise/hiss levels without Dolby.  I have transferred my recordings to CD using a Alesis Masterlink and they play back similar to a well mastered LP to CD.  Unfortunately, the deck was problematic and I switched to a Nakamichi ZX-7 which wasn't as low noise without Dolby.  I really don't like Dolby B cassette sound.  I think I'd rather hear a highest res 320 khz MP3. 

My own system is modest but surprisingly satisfying for me in my quest of sound quality... And experience had lead me to observe that NO audio system at any price sound the same in different room, and that room treatment can make differences in a room that are way bigger that any change of gear, be it a TT or a Dac… I will not even speak of vibration controls, or electromagnetic grid treatment of the house...I read all this thread and many arguments coming from all side are somewhat astute, sound or interestingly thoughtful... But the question of the OP is very difficult to answer in one way or another, without knowing, the room where his audio system will be, nor the way his electromagnetic house grid will be addressed, and which vibration controls methods will be used or not and I dont even speak about the particular hi-level quality gear involved...The level of hi-quality of vinyl and digital gear, side by side in an ascending scale, is one factor only, the room treatment, the vibration controls, and the treatment of the electro-magnetic grid of the house 3 other fundamental factors, and they are other important factors also ( like the source materials etc)… My best to all...

You are correct.  The room acoustics and power quality are paramount to maximizing the abilities of the electronics/speakers.  That's why I spent more on my room construction than on my audio equipment and it paid off.  See near the bottom of Page 2 of  https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-5-stages-of-making-a-bad-audio-purchase?lastpage=true&page=3 my post for my detailed room construction details