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Dazed & Confused

Listening to mostly jazz, solo instruments and vocals I find my Martin Logan Spire hybrids to sound awesome, but recently I was listening to some both "Busy" 90’s rock and classical (lots of instruments playing loudly together) and I find the music starts to sound garbled and annoying (to bright), so much so, I turn it off.
I was wondering if you all might have some suggestions on some speakers that would be a little more forgiving with busy/loud music that I could possibly switch over to when listening to different types of music. That is unless I can find speakers that can handle all styles of music, then I would consider taking the hit ($$$) on selling the Spires.

Without getting into room size and dynamics, lets just call it a standard room, I was also looking for something more efficient. The Spires need a huge amount of power (and volume) to sound good. Looking more for something I can listen to loud but also still enjoy the music at a much lower volume if that’s at all possible. Neutral and not to bright.
Living in the sticks, I can’t just jump in the car to go demo speakers. Only once, in the past, did I purchase a set of speakers online and unheard, going solely on the sales person’s recommendations. I learned the hard way to never do that again!

Equipment now: Coda CSiB integrated amp with W4S 2v2 SE Dac running Roon Nucleus.

I also wanted to mention that the Spires have phenomenal base, so much so I sold the 2 subs I was originally using with them. Floor standers and bookshelfs have come along way in SQ these days, but if I need to purchase another set of subs the budget is starting to dwindle.

No vinyl or CD’s, just Tidal.

$3,000 - $5000 budget, new or newer demos.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice you may have to offer!
Paul
high-amp
jrwaudio
345 posts
 

ML really stepped up the quality of their Electrostatic loudspeakers when they moved to the Paradigm manufacturing facility in Mississauga Ontario, Canada  I have heard the fit and finish is top notch.  I'm suprized that 35 watts didn't have an issue driving the Spires as that was a concern of mine as I think they can dip down to 2 ohms. My VAC amp has 2/4/8 ohm taps so maybe not a issue for me. My music room is over my garage, so If I set up the ML about two feet off the wall ( I have lots if room on the sides)  I would be 10 feet from the speakers. Do you think that's tight for the spires,? I've downsized not too long ago and had to sell my Dunlavy SC lll and my Inner Sound Isis speakers
So now I have a speakers that have a built in sub
that do double duty, home theater and two channel. They have great dynamic range, but lack the inner detail and spaciousness that the ML can bring.  So my hunt continues. With your search you have so many choices for high quality, good sounding speakers. There are lots of online vendors that will let you try their speakers at home for thirty days. Maybe an option once you narrow down your search. Good luck ! If you like I can suggest some speaker that I've consider, from book shelfs to floorstand 
mwinkc
368 posts
 
High-Amp, I think you are on the right track with your DAC volume.
Just this week I saw Paul McGowan of PSA audio imploring viewers to ALWAYS turn DACs up all the way and leave the volume control to the pre-amp. He said that the only way to get undistorted output from a DAC is by running it at 100%, anything less is asking for distortion...the lower the DAC volume, the greater the distortion.
I would have to guess there are some exceptions, but your ear is still the the final judge.

Here is a link to the YT video. If you don't want to have to wade through his off topic rambling about losing weight, he gets on-topic at 3:12.

https://youtu.be/pmNVM79D2Ks
high-amp OP
508 posts
 
Still with me Al?

W4S finally got back to me with this response:

" So a 1k load is quite ridiculous really, not sure why they would release something like that but surely don't drive that single-ended. Running balanced will drive it and whatever degradation would be common to both phases so likely to cancel out. I can test a DAC to see how it handles it if you wish but I suspect it would be fine".

I'm afraid all this technical lingo is above me, could I please trouble you to comment on this response? Is the fact they "suspect it would be fine" acceptable in your mind?
high-amp OP
508 posts
 
That's great, mwinkc. I will check out Paul's video, thank you!
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Just this week I saw Paul McGowan of PSA audio imploring viewers to ALWAYS turn DACs up all the way and leave the volume control to the pre-amp.
However Paul’s DACs (and the vast majority of others) do not put out maximum voltages anything like 10.5 balanced and 5.2 unbalanced, as the OP’s DAC does. Which can certainly cause problems for some preamps and integrated amps, ranging from having to set their volume controls too low (where depending on the specific design the resolution of volume changes may become too coarse and channel balance may suffer); to some degree of sonic degradation; to outright overload and severe distortion.

The very different and more conventional specs on Paul’s DirectStream DAC:

Output level, low: 0.282 VRMS Balanced; 0.141 VRMS Single Ended
Output level, high, maximum: 2.818 VRMS Balanced; 1.414 VRMS Single Ended

Also, there are a number of very different approaches to volume control implementation that are used by various DACs, which have differing susceptibilities to sonic degradation at settings that are below max.

As is usual in audio, it all depends :-)

Regards,
-- Al

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