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What is wrong with audiophiles?

Something that has happened countless times happened again last night. Ordinary people over for a party listening to some music easily hear things audiophiles argue endlessly don't even exist. Oh, its worse even than that- they not only easily hear but are stunned and amazed at what they hear. Its absolutely clearly obvious this is not anything they ever were expecting, not anything they can explain- and also is not anything they can deny. Because its so freaking obvious! Happens every time. Then I come on here and read one after another not only saying its impossible, but actually ridiculing people for the audacity of reporting on the existence of reality.

What is wrong with audiophiles?

Okay, concrete examples. Easy demos done last night. Cable Elevators, little ceramic insulators, raise cables off the floor. There's four holding each speaker cable up off the floor. Removed them one by one while playing music. Then replaced them. Music playing the whole time. First one came out, instant the cable goes on the floor the guy in the sweet spot says, "OH! WTF!?!?!"

Yeah. Just one. One by one, sound stage just collapses. Put em back, image depth returns.

Another one? Okay.

Element CTS cables have Active Shielding, another easy demo. Unplug, plug back in. Only takes a few seconds. Tuning bullets. Same thing. These are all very easy to demo while the music is playing without interruption. This kills like I don' know how many birds with one stone. Auditory memory? Zero. Change happens real time. Double blind? What could be more double blind than you don't know? Because nobody, not me, not the listener, not one single person in the room, knows exactly when to expect to hear a change- or what change to expect, or even if there would be any change to hear at all. Heck, even I have never sat there while someone did this so even I did not know it was possible to hear just one, or that the change would happen not when the Cable Elevator was removed but when the cable went down on the floor.

We're talking real experience here people. No armchair theorizing. What real people really hear in real time playing real music in a real room.

I could go on. People who get the point will get the point. People who ridicule- ALWAYS without ever bothering to try and hear for themselves!- will continue to hate and argue.

What is wrong with audiophiles?

Something almost all audiophiles insist on, its like Dogma 101, you absolutely always must play the same "revealing" track over and over again. Well, I never do this. Used to. Realized pretty quickly though just how boring it is. Ask yourself, which is easier to concentrate on- something new and interesting? Or something repetitive and boring? You know the answer. Its silly even to argue. Every single person in my experience hears just fine without boring them to tears playing the same thing over and over again. Only audiophiles subject themselves to such counterproductive tedium.

What is wrong with audiophiles????
128x128millercarbon
prof
3,474 posts
 
And sorry but you’ll just have to dream and imagine what its like having the CEO and cable designer who founded Shunyata Research over because that just ain’t ever happening. To you. So eat your heart out.


^^^^
That is one of the most hilariously "only-an-audiophile-could-have-dreamed-of-writing-it" statements I’ve ever seen on an audio forum.

Pure gold.

I can only think of a zillion people I’d rather have over than the founder of an AC power cable company. In millercarbon’s weird world, lack of interest in such high end audio tweakery apparently make ME the "audiophile."

I’m sure the first thing on non-audiophile guest’s minds are: "This sounds good, but can we hear your system without cable risers? Ok, but we need to hear it now without the magic bullets. Oh, what about the cable with the active shielding. Can you demo that for us? Please?"

This was clearly an audiophile unable to contain himself from wanting to demonstrate audiophile-geek tweaks to non-audiophiles. If you want to talk about "what’s wrong with audiophiles...." Yeesh. That’s just one step above loose-fitting jeans and an obsession with playing Buddy Guy.

I’ve had many non-audiophile guests who have loved listening to music on my system. And yes they are often stunned at hearing sound like they’ve never heard. But I sure as hell don’t start boring them to tears with audiophile geekery because I’ve got their rapt attention and I need my own obsessiveness validated. "Ok, but did you know the sound changes if I switch amps? Or if I switch impedance settings on my cartridge, or switch cartridges? Or if I tweak this or that? Sit there, I’ll demo this for you!" That’s not for THEM. That’s for YOU to feel validated in your own audio-geekery.

That’s just cringe-worthy stuff.



yuvalg9's avatar
yuvalg9
16 posts
 
What is wrong with Audiophiles? Many things. First, there are advocates of MQA, which is a hoax format developed by Meridian (UK) because the company has accrued a debt of 48,0000GBP over the last couple of years. In rigorous listening tests, listeners could not discern between MQA and redbook PCM. MQA didn't sound any better than PCM. Second, Audiophiles that hold DSD in high esteem. whether it's DSD128 or DSD 256 or the sampling rate of 11.2Mhz, DSD has a dynamic range of only 6dB(!), uses noise-shaping to move the "hash" to the ultrasonic region, and thus achieve a poor S/N ratio. Third, advocates of hi-res files like 24bit/384Khz are wrong; in the first place, these are bandwidth hoggers, and second, they sound WORSE than redbook 16bit/44.1Khz. Not to mention Audiophiles who invest plenty of money on uber-expensive interconnects, speaker cables, "high-grade" power cables, and power conditioners. Last week, I visited a hi-fi exhibition in Israel. There were two very impressive rooms, YG acoustics with an all NAGRA amplification and A Focal room  (Sorry, I forgot the amplification used in that room). To cut a long story short, the speaker cables in the YG room cost EUR70,000, and so did the speaker cables in the Focal room. This is ridiculous; you can buy a BMW or a Merc AMG or a Porsche for that kind of money. I suggest you read posts by a chap named Mark Waldarp; He explains the futility of investing such a preposterous amount  on speaker cables, interconnects, "hi-grade" power cables, and power conditioners; do yourself a favor and read his
posts, or better yet, buy his book about sound theory; you won't be disappointed. Mark is an extremely knowledgable audiophile, and he knows what he is talking about. The book is only $40; a well-spent investment.  
 
atdavid
736 posts
 
Well most of your post I agree with your comment about DSD and 6db is founded in a lack of understanding of noise shaping. What we don’t understand we often assume is bad whether there is real evidence of it or not.


Your comment about high res/high bandwidth is not founded nor completely unfounded. Higher resolution is never bad. You made a false claim. Higher bandwidth can cause speaker resonances that modulate to audible frequencies.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Yuvalg9
I suggest you read posts by a chap named Mark Waldarp; He explains the futility of investing such a preposterous amount on speaker cables, interconnects, "hi-grade" power cables, and power conditioners; do yourself a favor and read his
posts, or better yet, buy his book about sound theory; you won’t be disappointed. Mark is an extremely knowledgable audiophile, and he knows what he is talking about. The book is only $40; a well-spent investment.

>>>>>Actually, his name is Mark Waldrep...Dr. Mark Waldrep. I ran across this tidbit of Dr. Waldrep’s whilst cruising the ‘net a moment ago,

“A couple of weeks ago I wrote an article about an event that reported on some of the nonsense demos that happen at trade shows (you can visit the article by clicking here ). I deliberately avoided naming the salesperson who demonstrated the "benefits" of expensive — very expensive — power cords and the name of his company out of respect for the hosts. His demo produced audible/measurable increases in the amplitude of identical music selections. A result that is impossible according to the laws of physics. Electrical engineers and those with even a casual knowledge of how electrical circuits and power supplies work know that a heavy twisted cable worth thousands of dollars cannot — and should not — increase the plus and minus voltages needed by the various circuits in the equipment in question.”

Gosh, can Dr, Waldrep be one of those Cargo Cultists I described earlier today? Well, shut my mouth and call me cornpone! Stay tuned to this channel, gentle readers. 🤗
atdavid
736 posts
 
Vendors unfortunately do do this, play with levels at trade shows. I caught a vendor of conditioner products doing this recently in Toronto. He thought I was just amazed at the difference ... Nope, I was measuring the levels.
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