PrimaLuna Dialogue Preamp = emotionless?


After years of running a PS Audio Direcstream dac directly into ATC active floorstanders, I decided to take everyone’s advice and add a preamp into the mix. I picked up a used PrimaLuna Dialogue with highly regarded Mullard CV4003’s and Phillips 5R4GYS’s, the tubes purchased by the original owner five years ago from Upscale Audio, a terrific source. My correspondents were correct about adding a good preamp: it transforms everything in a very big way. That’s the good news -- and bad. The latter is the reason for posting.

Before the preamp, this was a modestly warm system, for which the Directstream is known. It was one in which it was not hard to find myself drawn into the music and performance. Since adding the PrimaLuna however, I find myself watching -- or listening to -- emotion but not feeling a thing. That is, beyond marveling at the other characteristics of the presentation. After that, I’m left perfectly cold - 100%. This is not at all what I expected -- or desire.

So what to do... Is there anything I should look at with the preamp? What about other preamps, preferably tube ones? The skinny these days is that tube gear developers are trying to imitate the "neutrality" of solid state, the so-called modern tube sound some call it. With the PrimaLuna, I was expecting to find a point in between the classic tube sound and the common solid state one, but what I’m hearing is more than a little distant from that.

(Other than adding the PrimaLuna and not having Ultimate beeswax fuses in the DS and PL currently for other reasons, nothing else in my system has changed: modified Oppo 203 w/ digital output only, PS Audio P15 Regenerator and AC-12 power cords, and MG Audio Design AG2 ICs,)
highstream
Thanks for the suggestions. Twenty-five hours in, the Brimar CV4003’s have improved a lot but like the Brimar rectifier I mentioned, have turned the preamp into sounding pleasant, which is not a recommendation. Maybe a matter of placement? Have to play around and wait awhile as they burn in. The Amperex 7316s don’t come cheap. From what I’ve been able to find, the aura around D-Getters has more to do with that characteristic happening to be in tubes people have liked, rather than the type of getter having something specifically to do with it. The Brimar rectifier sell for a lot less, so will give it a try. The PL tech suggested the PL 5AR4, which I have, or what some customers have liked, the JJ GZ-34.

I’m going to re-verify that 10K ATC amp impedance, as a few people have commented about it seeming unusually low.
Actually, on second look, the Brimar recti doesn’t sell for a lot less. I’ve seen a pair for as much as $699, although most are in the $130 each range + shipping from the UK.
The 7316 with the foil strip getters are a long plate design. To my ears... they are much more lush/organic sounding with great bass slam... than the large/small O getter short plates that followed after the 1958 foil type.
  The 7316 tubes are also a very,very quiet 12au7... which is a great bonus for the lowering of the preamps noise floor. They also come in a D-stirrup-shaped getter that should not be confused with the foil one. Some folks will try to pass them as the original foil design [because of the d-shaped getter] so beware of that when shopping around...
highstream,

I use a Dialogue Premium (DP) preamp and have the following FWIW comments. I run McCormack amplification and Thiel CS5's.

After a while the DP seemed analytical to me and I considered selling it. This was with Phillips rectifiers and after several tube changes. I like Seimens and Mazdas the best. Regardless of the tubes, the DP seems to me to focus on the vocals in the mix. 

I also run a Conrad Johnson 17LS2, which has a warmer sound than the DP and it seems more nuanced and textured. It has more PRAT to me but not quite as much bass slam.

I also use an Axiom II with Walker mods passive preamp and it provides the most revealing sound - it seems to provide the best presence but bad recordings can be rough on the ears.

The interesting thing is how my front end impacted the preamp sound. First I replaced a Ric Schultz modifed Oppo 103 with an AudioSpace CD8 used as a transport and a Theta ProBasic III DAC. I then kept the DAC and moved to a PS Audio PerfectWave transport. This last change was a real wow moment as I heard a lot more detail and the live presence improved for all three preamps, but especially for the DP. The DP's PRAT improved as well.

I just switched to 10 gauge from 16 gauge copper multi-strand speaker and this also provided more detail and better decay, which, to me, again added more presence.

Again, FWIW.

Thanks for listening,

Dsper
I added a Ayre KX-5 to my PS DS Dac. Matches well and adds the depth and feeling I think you are missing.

ozzy