PrimaLuna Dialogue Preamp = emotionless?


After years of running a PS Audio Direcstream dac directly into ATC active floorstanders, I decided to take everyone’s advice and add a preamp into the mix. I picked up a used PrimaLuna Dialogue with highly regarded Mullard CV4003’s and Phillips 5R4GYS’s, the tubes purchased by the original owner five years ago from Upscale Audio, a terrific source. My correspondents were correct about adding a good preamp: it transforms everything in a very big way. That’s the good news -- and bad. The latter is the reason for posting.

Before the preamp, this was a modestly warm system, for which the Directstream is known. It was one in which it was not hard to find myself drawn into the music and performance. Since adding the PrimaLuna however, I find myself watching -- or listening to -- emotion but not feeling a thing. That is, beyond marveling at the other characteristics of the presentation. After that, I’m left perfectly cold - 100%. This is not at all what I expected -- or desire.

So what to do... Is there anything I should look at with the preamp? What about other preamps, preferably tube ones? The skinny these days is that tube gear developers are trying to imitate the "neutrality" of solid state, the so-called modern tube sound some call it. With the PrimaLuna, I was expecting to find a point in between the classic tube sound and the common solid state one, but what I’m hearing is more than a little distant from that.

(Other than adding the PrimaLuna and not having Ultimate beeswax fuses in the DS and PL currently for other reasons, nothing else in my system has changed: modified Oppo 203 w/ digital output only, PS Audio P15 Regenerator and AC-12 power cords, and MG Audio Design AG2 ICs,)
highstream
The 7316 with the foil strip getters are a long plate design. To my ears... they are much more lush/organic sounding with great bass slam... than the large/small O getter short plates that followed after the 1958 foil type.
  The 7316 tubes are also a very,very quiet 12au7... which is a great bonus for the lowering of the preamps noise floor. They also come in a D-stirrup-shaped getter that should not be confused with the foil one. Some folks will try to pass them as the original foil design [because of the d-shaped getter] so beware of that when shopping around...
highstream,

I use a Dialogue Premium (DP) preamp and have the following FWIW comments. I run McCormack amplification and Thiel CS5's.

After a while the DP seemed analytical to me and I considered selling it. This was with Phillips rectifiers and after several tube changes. I like Seimens and Mazdas the best. Regardless of the tubes, the DP seems to me to focus on the vocals in the mix. 

I also run a Conrad Johnson 17LS2, which has a warmer sound than the DP and it seems more nuanced and textured. It has more PRAT to me but not quite as much bass slam.

I also use an Axiom II with Walker mods passive preamp and it provides the most revealing sound - it seems to provide the best presence but bad recordings can be rough on the ears.

The interesting thing is how my front end impacted the preamp sound. First I replaced a Ric Schultz modifed Oppo 103 with an AudioSpace CD8 used as a transport and a Theta ProBasic III DAC. I then kept the DAC and moved to a PS Audio PerfectWave transport. This last change was a real wow moment as I heard a lot more detail and the live presence improved for all three preamps, but especially for the DP. The DP's PRAT improved as well.

I just switched to 10 gauge from 16 gauge copper multi-strand speaker and this also provided more detail and better decay, which, to me, again added more presence.

Again, FWIW.

Thanks for listening,

Dsper
I added a Ayre KX-5 to my PS DS Dac. Matches well and adds the depth and feeling I think you are missing.

ozzy
15 or so years ago I sold my Preamp and bought a BAT VK5i SE it came with new production RCA 6922's and couldn't enjoy the preamp. The amp took 8 6922's. I knew it was the tubes so I bought 8 bugle boys it was better but the music didn't grab me. Was advised to buy nos power supply tubes so I did. Music just wasn't as fun listening to music anymore. I figured I needed to warm things up so I bought some nice nos Valvo's and then Mullards, everybody said BAT was so nice. I sold the amp. Funny thing was while I was chasing tubes to fix the BAT I listened to my 10 pound Don Allen Preamp that came with some kind of oddball $15 tubes he chose for building the preamp that was a complete joy to listen to big tight bass wonderful detail reteaveal but main thing it was very musical. I saw a video of Kevin Deal talking what makes the prima Luna so great was how much it weighed and how many parts are in it and a bad sounding preamps are light with not many parts in it. I don't know if I agree with that one. Problem is with all the things involved in a system a few things can through it off. You don't know if you can fix it unless you try but it can be expensive and agrivating road just to listen to music.
I’m not a PL owner but have owned many tube preamps. I highly recommend NOS Tung Sol rectifiers for a deep bottom end.

For a dynamic, lively presentation 1950s Amperex Holland Bugle Boys are an affordable alternative to the 7316 tube.