Transmission Line Bass


As a long time proponent of good bass without subs, I like tinkering with different ways of approching the age old problem of recreating all energy below 100Hz.
Seriously, if you look at loudspeaker responses, everything seems goes to hell just below that point, swinging wildly in output response, almost independent of many of the typical factors that would be indicators of performance.
So, the question.
Who among us has had extensive Transmission Line Bass Experience in listening, (like me with the IMF's in days gone by, with Bud Fried being a wonderful mentor to me).
In Jim Thiel's lab, one time he told me 'candidly' that Transmission Line Designs 'in theory' don't work. (Another discussion for another time). But he, like me was a bass freak of the first order, loving a rich full bottom end, hence some of his equalized designs early on. They were an all out attempt to bend the laws of physics.
So, what do we think of Transmission Line bass--so, if you're familiar with the sonics though actual listening, and can express first hand opinions let us hear your impressions of the differences between ported, passive radiators and transmission.

Thanks in advance...

Larry
lrsky
Larry,

I can give you lots of first hand experience with quarter-wave TLs. My father and I first began to experiment with them back in the late 50s (wow, I'm getting old) and were completely taken with the inherent low frequency extension and lack of boomy resonance, although we were admittedly "guessing" at the optimum dimensions (cross-section of the line)and usually wound up with refrigerator-sized cabinets Over the years I've built about a dozen differnt designs, each one improving on the last (lessons learned)and reduced in size.

Fast forward 50+ years. While browsing the Parts Express site I came across a link to a website by Martin J. King www.quarter-wave.com and was blown away by all the research and modeling this guy has done on TLs, especially the utilization of a tapered line and variable density stuffing (Acousta Stuff)which results in a dramatically smaller enclosure. It was the first time I'd ever seen a mathematical expression of TL characteristics---which takes some time to understand but really explains the physics of this concept. He has also reduced all the calculations to easy to use tables for the DIYer.

With this inspiration, I got out the drawing board and saws and put together a sub using a PE / Dayton 12" reference series woofer and modest 240W plate amp. In a word, I was stunned with the results.

Based on this success, I have gone on to build what I call an "Uber Woofer" using a 15" PE/ Dayton reference series woofer and PE's 1,000W external sub amp. While the cabinet is a bit larger (tuned to 17 Hz, which increased the line length), it still passes the wife approval factor (WAF) where I have it positioned in a corner of our theater room. Cabinet dimensions are 65.5H x 20.5W x 16D, it sits on 3" roller wheels, and the woofer is down-firing.
Awesome does not begin to describe the flat response and LF extension it generates, and transient response is completely satisfactory (to my ears).

If you're a real bass afficionado, this is the only way to go. I built it for about $800 and it blows away anthing I've heard under $5K (yes, I listened to most of the high end subs at the recent RMAF).

If you'd like more info, feel free to contact me, but I really suggest that you first take the time to study and understand Mr. King's website. I think he's probably done more research on TLs than any of the loudspeaker manufacturers mentioned in this thread (including Mr. Theil, GRHS).

BTW, if you're wondering why none of the name brand manufacturers have pushed TLs, it's not because of their lack of transient responese, its due to the much higher construction, packaging and shipping costs compared to the contemporary sealed / vented "boomboxes" (which they can sell at higher margins).
Unless the bass is generated adjacent to the wall, in-room cancellations will create the swing in FR you cite in your OP. So....either find a loudspeaker designed for use against a wall, correct bass response with a room correction device (e.g. Audyssey), or drop the objection to subwoofers.

Marty

That said, good luck with the TL hunt - I do like some of these designs, particularly the aforementioned IMF and Fried. Alas, the listening room is a cruel mistress.
JohnK,
You've stated the very thing that makes this whole debate an ongoing one...
Just wondering, as a 50Hz tone is 25', how would that be possible? (To build a T Line as long as a bass wave). A 25Hz 50'...and so on. This is what Jim Thiel was referring to--whether valid or not, with regard to our ability to build such a device. (I refuse to discuss most theory, as people ususally know, myself included, just enough to argue not convince). What is everyone else missing?