2. analog
  3. 153135-119652

At what price point do I run into diminishing returns on an MC Cartridge?

I need to replace my MC cartridge.  I've had limited experience with them but I have certainly noticed a dramatic difference in performance.  My first 3 were priced at $500 Sumiko, $900 Ortofon and $5000 Linn Kandid.  The difference between my first cartridge and second - nearly double in price, was a very noticeable improvement.  Then I took the plunge and spent $5000 (after tax) for my Linn Kandid cartridge.  The difference and improvement in the quality of sound was startling.  The soundstage was like nothing I'd ever heard before.  Coupled with my newly acquired McIntosh MP 1100 phono pre-amp and I was hearing things in LP's that quite frankly I had never heard before.  Amazing!  So here's the question: At what price point do I run into seriously diminished returns on a cartridge investment?  I rather doubt I'm going to have "double" the quality of sound that I received with my Linn Kandid cartridge if e.g. I went up to a $10K cartridge. So, my question to you audiophiles with loads of experience, what is your opinion on what price point (neighborhood) would take me to a place where every dollar spent thereafter would yield only micro returns.  Said another way, what is the best price point to take anyone to the the same neighborhood as a person with "money to burn" on cartridges?  BTW, I realize there are probably some pearls that don't cost nearly as much - and that money doesn't always buy you love.  If you KNOW of those do tell.         
normantaylor
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@rbstehno 

Normantaylor-creating a thread like this will get you a mix of people that don’t want to spend any amount of money on audio pieces like cables and cartridges or people that think their $100 piece is a giant killer.

Some used high-end cables are not expensive, sometimes people selling their cables for -70% of retail price. So $100 secondhand cable can be good too. Skilled in soldering can see how good is the phono cable, here i want to mention Zu Audio for their great cables, well build and good sounding compared to much more expensive cables. 



 If you have a nice tt with a $8k tonearm, you won’t be using a $500 cartridge.

Then look at Halcro's system and his collection of vintage MM cartridges. 

I am happy to use $500 cartridge on my $5k tonearm if this cheap cartridge is able to give me what i like, and the Garrott P77 was one of them. I think this is great idea, who said you have to pay $3k for a cartridge? I paid actually, so this is not about the money, it's about satisfaction. It's about the music after all. Some of the most involving cartridges are not the most expensive ones. 

Life is not so simple, everyone can make their own research in cartridges, so many of them around from different manufacturers/designers, different era, etc ... quality is not primary related to the price, they are all high quality, but we like some of them better than others for some reason.  

If I was searching for a high budget cartridge, I would make sure that you have a tonearm and phono preamp that can support such cartridge and then go listen if possible to cartridges that will work in your system. 

True, very important. 
jimmydd's avatar
jimmydd
42 posts
 
When your ears no longer hear an improvement!  
lewm
13,044 posts
 
Chakster and Edgeware, I own both an MC7500 and an MC2000.  Just recently I was able to borrow a current-driven phono input for the MC2000; prior to that none of my phono stages had enough gain to make the MC2000 "live".  And I don't own, nor ever have owned, an SUT.  Anyway, it would take a very high turns ratio to deal with the .05mV output of the MC2000.  Now, with current drive, I can really hear the MC2000; I find it to be superior to the MC7500.  In fact more than one of my other cartridges is preferred to the MC7500.  This has made me wonder about stylus condition, so I am not leaping to any conclusions on the performance of the MC7500.  But the MC2000 is fantastic when properly amplified.
edgewear
543 posts
 
Lewm, it seems there are more differences between the MC'4 digit' Ortofon's than I anticipated. The MC5000 has 0.15mV output. This is the lowest output cartridge in my arsenal, but it's still three times the 0.05mV of your MC2000!

Even the MC5000 is very picky on how it's driven. It's my only cartridge that doesn't work well with SUT's, although Ortofon apparently designed a SUT specifically for this series. I have two SUT's (but not that Ortofon), both with 30dB gain and in both cases there's considerably hum. But it's totally silent and very much 'alive' with Boulder 1008 phono amp with 70dB gain. So I can imagine the MC2000 will be even more demanding to drive properly. But if you manage to do that, I'm sure the results are spectacular.

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Normantaylor, unfortunately cartridges are like ski boots. You can try em on all you want but until you ski on them you have no idea. But, once you have skied on them they are yours.  Same holds true for cartridges. Worse, everyone's opinion is purely subjective and based on wildly variable conditions such as arms and set up. So in reality you are on your own. I do look at the reviews and what the reviewers use but mostly I look at build quality and specifications. The best cartridges are using Boron or diamond cantilevers with a very small diamond glued right to the end. This is a very stiff mass saving solution. I'm not buying a cheap aluminum cantilever with a squished end with a huge diamond poked through. All the angles have to be perfect. Compliance and tracking ability are the most important specs. My own experience is that modern low impedance MC cartridges built to the state of the art sound remarkably similar if all their set ups are tuned to 10 Hz. There are excellent cartridges in the 4 to 10 thousand dollar region. Spending above that does not get you much if anything except bragging rights. If you really like the Linn than go for a Lyra. You can certainly not do any better. Ortofon and Clearaudio also make SOTA cartridges. Koetsu's and Air Tight's are over priced for what you get and I own one of each. 
More to discover