Cartridge loading

Dear @atmasphere  : Could be my bad english.

Anyway, you posted:

"" will limit the ability of the cartridge to trace higher frequencies .."""

""  to simply say that by causing the cartridge to drive a lower impedance it will of course be less able to trace higher frequencies. ""



You said: "  it will of course ..". Where exist that evidence true evidence about because I don't see the foundations for your several years statements.

@intactaudio  already posted evidence coming from IAR with evidence that tell us a way different " thigs " that what you support.

My post where you said I lost the " road " ( or something like that. ) was only an example where if we have a room/system with high resolution and low distortions levels we can be aware of what damping in the tonearms can do or can't does.

Damping makes at least two things: " cleans " the frequency range extremes that permit that we listen more MUSIC and less colorations/distortions/resonances with out losting recorded information. I could think you own that kind of room/system and enough first hand experiences with nera field listening of live MUSIC so your ears tell you for sure what I'm saying and if not then you are in trouble.

So damping it's not a " bad " move but a very welcomed parameter/characteristioc for a way better MUSIC enjoyment, to stay nearer to the recording and nearer to live MUSIC.

In that thread that I mentioned you participated, Palmer posted:

"""  the purported effects of heavy resistive loading you state could be definitively true- certainly not on tracking which is demonstrably false based on IM tests on tracking performance that I have incidentally performed as a function of load. While mechanical impact does occur as a result of electrical load- there is some back emf necessarily generated by the signal current that affects the mechanical motion, but a quick back of the envelope calculation using Lenz's law and the 10uH cartridge suggests a 2 orders of magnitude difference between the generated signal and the back EMF for a 100 ohm load at 20kHz- certainly not enough to cause tracking issues I would think. As for the rest, well, take the Madake for instance- the resistive load that people (reviewers) claim is best literally varies by nearly four orders of magnitude! I load mine with 60 ohms (as do many users) and I find that the resolution and dynamics is excellent while maintaining a natural timbre, tonal balance and micro/macro dynamics while not creating the unnatural e  """


Some one in that thread questioned about was not EMF and Palmer gave this answer:


" Yes, it really is back EMF- it's calculated using Lentz's law and is a consequence of Faraday's Law of Induction and it occurs as a result of the change in current through the coil- that's where the frequency dependent term comes from (the derivative). The term is subtracted from the voltage generated by the cartridge and in that way it acts to reduce the output voltage and hence the current, so there's a degree of negative feedback. I chose to use the full inductance rather than the MC inductance alone as a way to add a bit of correction for the physical displacement of the stylus/cantilever/coil that occurs as a result of the generated force. I did it that way as I don't believe that true reciprocity occurs and I have no idea what the losses are. The "gain" can be scaled to increase the mechanical feedback- for example the value of multiplier for the s term in the feedback could be increased to Icart*1.5 for example. What I actually calculate is
FBvoltage= k.Lcart*Icart*s, where K is the scale factor mentioned above (a default of 1), s=jw as usual, Lcart is the extended inductance and Icart is the actual cartridge current in the coil which I measure using a very small R as sucky LTspice doesn't include the right components to let me do it easily. """


I have no time rigth now to go on, maybe latter.

R.

Where exist that evidence true evidence about because I don't see the foundations for your several years statements.

I see that you don't. But if I tell you that the sky is often blue, do I need to provide evidence, such as what 'blue' looks like? This is a similar problem; one based in engineering inherently understands that damping limits high frequencies.

Dear @atmasphere  : please don't change the words. You posted several times:

  "" will limit the ability of the cartridge to trace higher frequencies .."""

where are the evidence of that " limit to trace ".

Damping effect is one thing and trace/tracking isssue in the cartridge is a way different subject.

I thinkthat now we are talking of different issues. Palmer proved to you and all that there is not that such " limit trace/tracking " in the cartridge abilities and in that thread no one including you had nothing on hand ( evidence. ) to refute the Palmer true facts:

""  certainly not on tracking which is demonstrably false based on IM tests on tracking performance that I have incidentally performed as a function of load . ""

and in your last post in this thread now you are changing and talking only that : "

"  damping limits high frequencies ..." when for years you said " trace " ( including in this thread.



Btw for those gentlemans that don't know or forgot whom is Palmer here what he posted about in that thread when some one asked for:

"""  may not be a renowned Audio Designer, but I am a somewhat renowned IC designer with credits that include cell phone transceivers and high performance opamps.

I focused on high performance high speed amps like the AD843, 845 (at one point an audio darling), 846 (also a transimpedance design with some very interesting design aspects that I gave an ISSCC paper on) etc. etc. mostly using a complementary bipolar process that I helped develop that I believe was also used in the AD797. I also did things like designing the FET based AD736/737 RMS-DC converter and others.
I moved on to more RF, disk drive read/write, GSM, CDMA etc. transceivers, signal processing, PLL and DSP designs .."""



He was  a leader team at Analog Devices and like all the engeenering gentlemans that works as a leaders in those kind of companies ( in the past National and today B&B/Texas Instrument and the like. ) Palmer has not only a top electronics/electrical knowledge levels and skills and tools where belongs his opinion foundations. Extreme high credentials.

He worked too in UK in Decca in the recording overall production and then retired and as free-lance is an advisor of manufacturers and through specific internet forums and individual persons that needs his services.


R.

please don't change the words. You posted several times:

  "" will limit the ability of the cartridge to trace higher frequencies .."""

I didn't. There is nothing above that suggests I did other than your text.

Useless with you. Keep talking with no true evidence of that " limit cartridge trace/tracking " due to loading changes. Only your bla, bla that at least for me is not enough because I have very low understand to with out evidence.

@lewm did you know how much " force " do you need to apply/need/ at the base of the cantilever to really impedes at the stylus tip position its free movements, a tiny movement? no? then what are you talking about? yes? please let us know?. and please no bla, bla like your friend but true evidence.
Btw, do you know the " power forces/inertia " generated at the stylus tip when ridding the grooves at 33/45 rpm and what " force " is need it to " limit the trace " of the stylus tip to track when appliyed that force/loading at the other end of the cantilever?

For the five time in this thread: Palmer is the only gentleman that did it his technical job where he found out no single evidence of that " limit trace " by the cartyridge loading. Is the only gentleman that posted true evidence but obviously as your friend you don't beleive him with out reason by your part.

Btw, you participated in that " party " of your friend and you was dancing with emotion when posted that you preffer listen to your MC cartridges at 47K ! ! From that same time/moment your credibility with me in that specific regards goes down/falls.

R.