Victor UA-7082 Arm, Rubber Washer at Rear Counterweight Tube: Sag/Repair/Fitting Damage.


Victor UA-7082 Arm, Rubber Washer at Rear Counterweight Tube: Sag/Repair/Fitting Damage.
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The Large Plinth with UA-7082 I bought arrived, the plinth, legs, dust cover seriously damaged. Insured, at UPS for damage claim now.

The arm, before I bought it, the counter weight tube was sagging (very typical it seems), because the rubber washer between the main tube and the rear counterweight tube had deteriorated (the typical age related problem).

I pointed it out to seller, he fixed it, posted new photos, I bought it.

The arm arrived undamaged, however, it was going back, and, perhaps I will buy one in the future with bad rubber, soooo, I decided to see how he fixed it.

I’m no engineer, this is my attempt to clarify the rubber repair for myself and others. Lot of words to attempt clarity, it’s not that complicated.

1. the 7082 (presumably 7045) rear tube and counterweight are not totally isolated from the arm by a tubular layer of rubber like my SME 3009 was. (I repaired 3009 with factory rubber tube from SME when I first got it).

2. The 7082 rear tube is threaded, It threads into the back of a fitting on the end of the main arm, just behind the pivot. Not tight machine threads, so minor movement can occur. That is a semi-solid, not totally isolated connection. If the rubber washer is weak, these loose threads allow sag to occur. Perhaps the threaded shaft gets bent down also.

3. You thread/snug that rear tube forward against the rubber washer. The thickness of the washer is therefore not critical (except too thin). The density of the rubber needs to be firm enough to keep the rear tube from sagging, but not too hard, so it can do it’s job: dampening vibrations traveling down/back up the tube, isolating counterweight .... engineers can clarify this design function.

4. Washer Shape. Factory ____? This one: It did not slip off the front tube as I expected a simple washer would. It had an integral smaller diameter ’shoulder’ or ’neck’ that projected forward into the rear tube fitting. There are two tiny allen-head set screws at the bottom of the fitting. I loosened them and a short piece of tube came out, less than an inch long, rubber washer at the rear end.

5. Front face of the small fitting with the washer has/had a brass faced plate, curved. This one was damaged, part missing, part ’mangled’. My guess, it was set too tightly to the face of the arm shaft, someone messed with it, who knows ....

6. The point is, unless I took it apart, it looked fixed, you would definitely choose this over one with deteriorated rubber, sagging rear tube. But it had invisible damage. No way to know if buying used. Or know after you received it. I think this is probably a very rare instance, just mentioning it, perhaps someone knows something about it _____ ?

7. Effect performance??? Many have said they have weak rubber washers/sagging rear tubes: so what, plays great. The fitting: internal damaged brass face could be carefully reassembled, making sure no contact with anything.

8. Anti-Skate. I don’t like it, especially used. The plastic cap lifted off to reveal a spring coiled around the shaft (cap’s tiny set screws too loose?). Turning the top dial compresses the spring, step-less progressive resistance to the rotation of the arm shaft, great  ... Counter-acts inward force when playing.

Perhaps I would be confident with new from factory, but, there is no way I would be confident with this one, or any used one. Where is zero? Prior in-appropriate revolutions? Weakened spring?

I like dangling string counterweight with many small 1/4 gram notches like the SME and others. One thing I did not like about my 3009 Anti-Skate was the age and brittleness of the plastic line, but it always tested accurate in use.

9. Actual anti-skate. Listening, test record, final set of anti-skate is best. But, when changing cartridges, Stereo to Mono, Shibata to Elliptical: quickly adding or reducing tracking force, then a quick anti-skate corresponding change ..... no listening test, trust the incremental changes from prior proven setting. I feel more confident moving the string to the next notch than adjusting a spring.

Hope this is helpful, perhaps others can clarify anything I got wrong.

Elliott


elliottbnewcombjr
UPS picked it up yesterday, plinth, tt, arm, cover. They are confirming damage before they pay the $1,000. insurance. I expect that to go well. The money may go back to the seller as he purchased the insurance on my behalf. Then, if he sends me the money back as a refund thru Paypal, hopefully two things will happen:

1. not charge the seller a fee to send me the money.
2. refund my original $46. paypal fee I paid to send the money to the seller.

That's too complicated, if you will act via PayPal (claim) they will immediately refund you everything under "paypal buyer's protection" and will cover return shipping of the damaged stuff to the seller, the return shipping will be refunded later when they will get confirmation that parcel returned to the seller (and received by the seller). The deal with USPS is seller's responsibility. No loss for you at all if you do that with paypal, this is the only good thing about PayPal actually, they are protecting buyers (not sellers). But if the seller insured his parcel he will get money from his shipper. Why you just waste you time with it? Fill PayPal claim before it's too late and the seller will refund you your original payment immediately or his PayPal account will be blocked by PayPal, you will get your money back anyway. Find your original payment on your paypal account online and click report a problem, describe the case and wait for full refund from the seller or escalate to paypal and get refund from them. It works only if you paid for a goods (not family and friends, gift option), good lesson for the future. 



@lewm

Unfortunately not, but keep in mind that what I have repaired is the arm that is applied as standard on the JVC QL7
Jvc 7045 is easier to repair because the screws for disassembly not hidden by the articulation castle.

This 3ad could be of great help for repair 7045 or 7082
https://www.audiovintage.fr/leforum/viewtopic.php?t=55306
best-groove

If you see the innards, you realize the weakened rubber grommet is more critical than many think.

the link you posted is terrific, repeated below, and 2 links found within it

https://www.audiovintage.fr/leforum/viewtopic.php?t=55306

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/moto/jogging/audiowood.html

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/moto/jogging/audiowood.html#7045

the top link photos are the best I’ve seen, especially when fully disassembled to see the internal brass piece separately.

my 7082 was slightly different, however,

I now understand the design, which does TOTALLY isolate the rear assembly from everything forward of the pivot via a ’ two stepped’ rubber grommet:

’two stepped’ rubber grommet: like a 2 layer cake, the top layer (forward-invisible inside the tube when assembled) is a smaller diameter than the bottom layer (rear-visible separates the front and rear tubes when assembled).

It is the deterioration of the smaller unseen portion of the grommet that ’allows’ sag of the rear assembly. When seriously degraded (as mine was before the seller repaired it), it ’allows’ serious damage to metal parts.

The smaller diameter rubber layer gets pushed inside the forward tube, thus unseen when assembled. That is the TOTAL isolation from the front assembly. That portion, unseen, must be firm enough as it is carrying all the weight of the rear assembly.

The larger diameter rubber layer is the diameter of the tubes, thus visible, and simply keeps the tube faces apart from each other when assembled, like the white part of an Oreo cookie.

The larger diameter portion of the grommet also restricts forward movement of the internal rubber.

When the larger diameter portion is deteriorated, it also ’allows’ sag, however, it is the unseen rubber that is most important.

Assembly:

1. rubber grommet slides onto the brass fitting. The brass fitting has a thin flange at the face toward the pivot. That simply stops the stepped rubber piece from moving further forward.

2. Insert the brass piece/forward portion of the rubber grommet into the hole in the rear face of the pivot. Position it back far enough so the brass flange (now unseen) does not contact any internal pivot parts (in any position when the arm is moved.

3. Tighten the set screw.

4. The threaded shaft of the brass fitting faces rearward. The larger diameter portion of the rubber grommet is in place.

5. spin the entire counterweight assembly (it has internal threads) onto the threaded shaft. spin forward until it’s face is firm against the face of the rear face of the rubber grommet.

6. Fasten set screw.

Serious Internal Damage:

IF/When the interior unseen rubber grommet sufficiently deteriorates, the sag allows/moves the forward flange of the brass piece too far forward, actually making contact with metal within the pivot.

Half of my brass flange was missing, (fell out when seller repaired it). The remaining portion of the flange was ’mangled/misshapen-ed’. It must have been making seriously detrimental contact against internal pivot parts.

Before serious internal damage occurred, there had to have been minute contact, minutely effecting pivot movement, and both progressing speck by speck.

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You can buy an arm that has been repaired, and not see/know of any past or potential internal metal contact. Circumstances, curiosity, nothing to lose led to me discovering damage within. And, a set of tiny allen wrenches.

I suppose seller, when repairing the rubber, might have ’re-set’ the fitting rearward enough that no internal contact was occurring. All might have been happy ever after, but it was a disturbing sight for sure.

Anyone making the repair can re-set the brass piece to avoid internal metal contact.
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Mostly or Completely remove a damaged brass flange? I suppose so, however, it would have to be a one piece stepped grommet so the larger diameter layer kept the attached smaller diameter internal layer in place, unable to move too far forward. Careful positioning of both fitting and rubber in the pivot then locked with set screw.
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After seeing this, I would say, if your arm sags, fix it.




the link you posted is terrific, repeated below, and 2 links found within it

yes I know; I think it is the only one in the world where he explains in detail and shows how to proceed with the repair ... for this reason I saved the link in my favorites.
The remainder of your post is all correct and I agree on what you have written.