TACT RCS 2.0 Users Group


I've recently purchased the TACT RCS 2.0 unit. As I've been wrestling with getting the optimum performance out of it, I keep thinking there must be other owners out there that have ideas to share, as well as those who could benefit from what I've learned.

I was hoping this thread would provide a forum to introduce us to each other.

Anyone interested in sharing what you've learned?

I for one have found the unit difficult to get a true grasp of how to optimise, but once learned, it has produced the best sound of any component I've ever added to my system. My system currently consists of a Sony SCD1 to the TACT 2.0 RCS with internal DAC and D/A converter. Signal is then fed from the TACT in analog format to my Art Audio Jota and then to the Avantgarde Duo Hornspeakers.
I'll start by stating I've found the suggestions in the TACT documentation for speaker placement to be contra to good sound. I've gotten the best results by using George Cardas's Near Field logic and using the TACT Nearfield target curve as the beginning point to custom build my personal target curves.

This resulted in a sound stage this is awesome and the clarity of the frequencies is without compare in my experience.

However, it took over 100 hours of experimentation to reach this result - a lot of lessons learned. At this point, I feel I know just enough to be dangerous!
tao
Re: Sigtech versus TacT

In response to comments from a Sigtech owner who have tried the TacT 2.0 without immediate success I would like to explain why the Sigtech owner – initially - is less likely to achieve good results with the TacT 2.0 than other customers.

In no way do we want to belittle the fantastic achievemet made by Sigtech when they brough out their correction system in 1992. However it is important to understand some of the fundamental differences between our products.

The Sigtech approach to correction is to find the speaker position that gives the flattest possible response in the bass region and then apply correction.

The TacT approach to correction is to place the speakers where it is suitable for the utilisation of the living space, and if possible where they produce a lot of bass, and then do correction.

The difference in approach comes from the correction capability of the systems. The Sigtech has a correction resolution of 20 Hz and 50 milliseconds throughout the bandwidth which extends to 20 KHz. The TacT 2.0 has a correction resolution of 2 Hz and 500 milliseconds in the bass region and the correction resolution is then reduced to about 10 Hz in the midrange and further to much less than that at higher frequencies, while the frequency bandwidth extends to 45 KHz.

With the limited resolution of the Sigtech at lower frequencies the correction can not be accurate below 200 Hz. Then one could argue that that is only 1 % of the frequency bandwidth – yes, but that is not how we hear it! 200 Hz and down to 16 Hz is almost 4 octaves – approximately half of the fundamental tones used in music! Furthermore below 200 Hz is where most of the energy is in an average piece of music. Sigtechs´s solution to this problem is to find the position where the speaker system itself will have the best possible frequency response in the region below 250 Hz and then apply correction.

The problem with the Sigtech approach is the following: To achieve a relatively flat response in a listening room in the region below 250 Hz you will have to find a placement of the speakers that randomise the standing waves and pathways of sound from the speaker to the listening position to the greatest possible extent. Unfortunately this also means that the time-coherence is randomised as much as possible. Technically speaking: That the least amount of energy received in the listening position is minimum phase while the greatest amount is non-minimum phase. What is minimum phase and non-minimum phase ? Well it is not so difficult to understand: the signal that has minimum phase in the listening position relative to the speakers own response is the part of the sound that comes directly to the listening position, while the non-minimum phase is the part of the signal that is delayed because it has bounced from a back wall, sidewall etc. ( every time the sound chage direction it also change the phase )
What all of this means is the following: WHEN YOU ACHIEVE A FLAT FREQUENCY RESPONSE BY RANDOMISING STANDING WAVE PATTERNS IN A NORMAL LISTENING ROOM YOU ALSO ACHIEVE THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF SMEARING IN THE TIME-DOMAIN.
So Sigtech can achieve good results in terms of frequency response throughout the bandwidth if you are very careful placing the speakers where the inherent response is flat already at low frequencies – but the penalty can be a lack of time coherence in the fundamental range of music.

Once the speakers have been placed for flat response – meaning least amount of minimum phase from the speakers / greatest amount of time smear – then the options for correction is limited. Why is that ? Simply because no correction system – even theoretically – can change the way the low frequencies radiate from a speaker box. (without putting DSP power on each drive separately). So once time coherence is lost it can not be re-established.

With TacT correction systems we encourage to experiment a little with speaker placement as well. But now with the intent to find a position of the speakers relative to the listening position that yields the greatest amount of energy from the speakers and then apply correction. That usually means placing the speakers closer to the back wall, and closer to the corners. Yes, that will increase the bass level – but what does that mean ? It means that a greater amount of sound travels directly to the listening position without delay and phase shift, so the time coherence is better. Obviously the frequency response is much worse but that is easily corrected with the TacT system. (The TacT operates with 48 bit internal resolution so any amount of correction can be performed without noise or distortion).
So with the TacT correction units you have the ability to achieve both a good frequency response and a good time coherence. Once you have heard what that does to the palpability to the music you will have little doubt that we are barking up the right tree !

Peter Lyngdorf , TacT Audio.
Mr Lyngdorf is incorrect.

I have both units and have long term experience in this area.

Fact: With the Tact you have no way of knowing what the end result is after correction. When looking at the actual measurements after correction using industry standard mesurement tools (MLSSA, it will be clearly demonstrated that the end result does NOT look like the target curve. Transalated--you are guessing when you pick a target curve.

Doing the exact same thing with the SigTech, you get what you expect---that is, if you tell the SigTech you want a flat response, you get a flat response (that is flat in the sense that the FFT of the time domain is flat).

In addition, the SigTech does NOT require that you place the speakers where you get the flattest bass response. While there may be some benefits to that approach, I can assure you that most of the SigTech installs I am familiar with (hundred of them) have the speakers where, in no particualr order (a)they fit within the rooms decor (b) the optimization between bass response and image depth (usually determined by the distance from the front wall) is considered and (c) customers personal placement preference.

On a more subjective basis, Mr Lyngdorf's comments notwithstanding, I could argue that the bass correction of the Tact sounds worse that the SigTech. I can demonstrate that from about 300Hz up the SigTech give MUCH BETTER response.

All of that said, I would summarize as follows: (a) for a fully function digital preamp with a good D to A converter and the ability to do your own room correction, you pay about $3500. The equivalnet (almost) SigTech (new) cost 3 times that (b) with some care (and some external measurement software) you can get much better sound (MUCH, MUCH, MUCH BETTER)with the Tact than you will EVER get with out one in 98% of the rooms.

While I can (and will) argue that the SigTech is the superior product in terms of sound quality, the Tact beats the pants off of no room correction and in terms of dollars per unit of sonic gain, the Tact wins against the SigTech.
If you can afford a SigTech, get one. If you can't, run, don't walk to your local Tact dealer.
Audioguy123, can you give a general description of the TacT's variation from target correction (which frequencies, how much, etc.) in your experience of measuring it? Thanks.
Drubin--it is not consistent. The one place where it is consistent is in the low end. If you use one of the curves with the boosted base, you actually get flatter base but the problem (as I stated in an ealier post) is that you don't know how much to boost the bass in the target curve (and what slopes to use) to get the correct flat response.

Sorry I can't be more help. There is some stand alone software that you can use with a Tact that by an iterative process you can get the desired result. Try www.ETFacoustics.com.
Hi,

Now I have been working with the TacT for app. 1½ year, I have some experiences on that product. It seems to me, that especially in the bas the improvement in sound is huge. Besides that it is also improving the general sound in terms of naturalness, coherens between bas, midrange and treble, and the general balance between left and right.

It may be right, that the target curve is not telling you the total truth. And so what? As long as you are able to change the sound temperature by just adjusting the target curve I dont see any problems. Do you really think the right system will actually have a totally flat frequency response? Probably not. Because the system is only performing, what you want to measure. Think of f.x. Mark Levinson, which excellent product do have an equalized bass, even that the frequency curve is very flat. The frequency response is unfortunately only the half truth. Or trying different cables. Different sound, but still the same frequency response. A lot of other things counts.

It is important to notice, that according to my experience it is essential, that the correction is based on the same propriety measurement system, not a external system. It is during the design of the measurement system necessary to select between several solutions, and to decide how to measure what we exactly are hearing, is very, very complicated. A lot of AES-papers can document that. And on this very point, the TacT system is indeed very good. Very good similarities between what is measured and how it will sound. From that point of view it is not important how the resulting target curve will look like. The TacT system is NOT a measurement system, but a sound system.

In short, I find the system very hard to live without, because it - to put simple - solves the interaction problems with my listening room, which I never had solved. It will not do a bad speaker perfect, as it requires a very good and expensive speaker to make it possible to registrate the full benefits. By the way the system is also working very well with dipolar speakers fx MartinLogan Prodigy.

Regards
Kim Kruse Petersen, High Fidelity, Denmark