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So What Is Real?

There is a newsletter I subscribe to because the guy seems to talk about reality and not what some sales dude wants to sell you. mwaldrep@aixrecords.com   Now the funny thing to me is that all these cable specialists of high dollar remedies for flawed playback are somehow going to magically change what you hear and will then rise above the abilities of the music file limitations and recording engineers. A dumb wire that is used to create the hi-res recordings so sought after is not somehow suitable for the playback of the same. The following is from Waldreps newsletter and I fully agree. I love this guy and he is a light shining through all the smoke and mirror BS of high end audio. I confess I too am a cable denier and incapable of hearing " further uptick in micro-dynamic jump " but love the delicious word salad these guys create to try to describe something that is not there. I can see the cable guy sitting there with his buddy. Wow did you hear that uptick in micro-dynamics!!  You just know that's how he would talk, right?
  As an aside here how does one become a professional listener? What is the criteria for attaining this lofty goal? How do you know when you have arrived and what governing authority sets down the requirements for such a thing so you know  you are not deceiving yourself and others? Is it a nebulous category that is assigned to you when you spend a certain level of money or do you have verifiable and provable abilities above the norm as recognized by a large group of people including recording industry engineers, professional sound installers and high end audio system owners? In other words anyone but cable sellers?

  The following is from "Dr. AIX Post for January 25, 2020"

 " Cable Nonsense

What is it that Art Linkletter used to say? Kids say the darndest things. Well, it seems some FB audio group administrators, audiophiles, high-end audio salespersons, audiophile society officials, and manufacturers also say things that make little or no sense when talking or posting about cables.

I usually steer clear of FB posts or online magazines that promote high-end audio cables. It's just never safe to present with science, established electrical engineering theory and practice, or objectiveness when cables are concerned. A recent exchange on a familiar FB audio group page resulted in a member calling me a "cable denier" because I advocated for science and physics in evaluating power cords.

The thread basically dismissed my comments because I'm a member of the professional audio engineering community. Audio equipment salespeople, FB administrators, high-end audio marketing managers, and the general audio buying public are claimed to be better and more reliable sources of information when it comes to recommending expensive accessories and cables. According to the gentleman below, they are capable of listening in ways that audio professionals can not.

One commenter wrote:

"Mark is a pro and speaks just like one, but he is not a professional LISTENER, like you (Writer's NOTE: the guy offering the ultra expensive power cords), I and so many others in the high-end industry. Interesting is that most so-called experts are also naysayers who work in the recording industry, not in the high-end industry."

What does this statement actually claim? That professional audio engineers and producers do not know how to listen? That spending one's professional life in front of speakers in a control room doesn't require listening?Maybe...just maybe...the engineers responsible for producing the recordings that are played back in these guys high-end systems are correct in their assessment of power cords and expensive USB/Ethernet cables. Image that!

Can you really trust a gentlemen that just launched a new cable company that offers a 6-foot power cord for $3150? Oh and this person also believes that cables are directional! BTW They are not.

Here's a couple of additional comments...

"Cables can make a difference. I’m glad I can hear those differences it truly enhances the experience. I have been a dedicated audiophile and in the industry for over 45 years and have been able to identify those differences since my first experience with Smog Lifters in the 70’s. I search for and usually discover great products that deserve special attention by people looking for the last bit of resolution and coherency. I’m truly sorry for those that wouldn’t hear the difference."

Here's a comment from an individual that swapped a normal Ethernet cable for an expensive one.

"...the Vodka seemed to remove a layer of film for superior textural reveal. There was also a shade more tonal depth and recording space ‘air’. Most noticeable of all was a further uptick in micro-dynamic jump."

I don't know about you but I cringe when I hear people talk about audio in such terms. And this after listening to a commercial album and then stopping, swapping the cable and relistening. It's unbelievable.

I could pull quotes from cable reviews all afternoon but I think you get the point. When anyone starts spewing nonsense about power cords, digital interconnects, or network cables, run away. Keep your wallet in your pocket and unsubscribe from that group or online magazine. Their motivations are suspect. They either want to sell you something (usually at very high cost) or are dependent on advertising dollars from the companies they write about or the individuals they interview.

"
mahlman
amg56's avatar
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amg56
887 posts
 
I am so disappointed that this forum, and in fact much of the posted subject matter in the forums are so bad. I originally came to this forum to commune and learn from the people who know about the subjects who we, want to learn about and from those we expected to learn from. I am very disappointed the see that this forum (and of all subjects) are full of vitriol, sarcasm, commentary that is so off subject, and the ever destructive trolls big noting themselves  that the conversation and subject matter becomes irrelevant.
To those who what to learn, I am sorry for you that the knowledgeable persons are shut down by ignorant big noters, and those that want to learn are shut out by big nobodies.

I hope that this forum can return to one that exhibits those with (teaching) knowledge such that the newbies and those without audio knowledge are able to learn of this wide and wonderful subject.

I hope that the trolls stay away so we can learn without bad influences.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But where the subject is learning, can the trolls stay away so "we" can learn and gain some knowledge without being trampled on.


I actually have a lot of respect for this forum, however if the sarcasm, bitterness between poster's, and those persons who consciously sabotage the posts which want to learn.

I hope those with trivial comments leave, so we who are serious can learn.
barkeyzee1
41 posts
 
I was a non-believer that cables make a difference until I witnessed it on my own system. I had bought a new interconnect cable thinking it would be an upgrade over what I already had, I was shocked at the difference in sounds / loss of brightness and extended low end that had been there before...  I quickly went back to my original $30 interconnect cable.

Like some of  the comments here have suggested, use what sounds good to YOU!
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

amg56
I am so disappointed that this forum, and in fact much of the posted subject matter in the forums are so bad. I originally came to this forum to commune and learn from the people who know about the subjects who we, want to learn about and from those we expected to learn from. I am very disappointed the see that this forum (and of all subjects) are full of vitriol, sarcasm, commentary that is so off subject, and the ever destructive trolls big noting themselves that the conversation and subject matter becomes irrelevant.
To those who what to learn, I am sorry for you that the knowledgeable persons are shut down by ignorant big noters, and those that want to learn are shut out by big nobodies.

>>>>>>Hey, that’s kind of the way it goes on these troll threads sometimes. Maybe best to relax and enjoy the ride.
elliottbnewcombjr
5,304 posts
 
One funny aspect of moving up the chain of 'better' best' 'new best' is:

by the time we get enough surplus money to afford better, best, new best, we are OLDER, our hearing, especially high frequencies, is beginning and progressively diminishing.

A great deal of the 'differences' is in the high frequencies.

Old Reviewer's Ears are .....
elliottbnewcombjr
5,304 posts
 
It's like religion, you cannot disprove it.

SNAKE OIL is REAL

The term “snake oil” is used to describe any worthless pseudo-medical remedy promoted as a cure for various illnesses. By extension, snake oil salesmen are charlatans who sell such fraudulent goods.

In 19th century America, snake oil was commonly promoted as a cure-all. It was supposedly produced by boiling rattlesnakes and skimming off the oil that rose to the surface. But although it was sometimes prepared in this way, hucksters found it cheaper and easier to substitute other oils.

Sales of alleged rattlesnake oil continued into the 20th century. In 1915 the US government ordered the analysis of a well-known product, Clark Stanley’s Snake Oil Liniment. The analyst found that its main constituents were “a light mineral oil (petroleum product) mixed with about 1 per cent of fatty oil (probably beef fat), capsicum, and possibly a trace of camphor and turpentine”. Since the product contained no snake-derived oil, Stanley was taken to court and found guilty of misbranding and misrepresenting the product. He was fined $20 — the equivalent of about $430 (£280) today.

Nevertheless, since Clark’s formulation was not unlike modern-day capsaicin-based liniments and chest rubs, it was probably of more use than genuine rattlesnake oil, which has not been shown to have any health benefits.

But where did the belief in snake oil arise? It seems that early American immigrants may have adopted native American customs and also transposed to the rattlesnake an ancient British belief that preparations based on the adder can cure various ills.

These notions would have been reinforced in the 1840s when many Chinese labourers arrived to help build the Transcontinental Railroad. They would almost certainly have brought with them oil from the Chinese water-snake (Laticauda semifasciata, black-banded sea krait), which in traditional Chinese medicine has been used for centuries as an anti-inflammatory agent to treat arthritis, bursitis and other joint pains. These labourers may have offered snake oil to fellow workers as relief for enduring long days of physical effort.

Modern-day research suggests that Chinese water-snake oil may indeed have health benefits because of its high content of omega-3 fatty acids. In 1989 an analysis of snake oil bought in San Francisco’s Chinatown found that it contained 20 per cent eicosapentaenoic acid, which is more than is found in popular omega-3 food sources such as salmon.

Omega-3 fatty acids have been shown to reduce inflammation and are alleged to offer many other health benefits. Although many of the claims made for them — often by the modern equivalent of the snake oil salesman — are unproven, it does appear that they may help in lowering systolic blood pressure, improving cognitive function, reducing the risk of dementia and relieving depression.

A few years ago, researchers in Japan evaluated the effect of Chinese sea-snake oil on a number of outcomes in mice. They found that, compared with lard, snake oil significantly improved the rodents’ maze-learning ability and swimming endurance.

So it seems that snake oil salesmen may not be such mountebanks after all, provided they sell the right sort of oil for the right indications.


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