Comparing Wadia vs. Meitner

Drhst20 thanks for your evaluations. They were very specific. saw Fmpnd's system it's quite a bit better than your system how did his system sound compared to yours? I am wondering if you could have been so amazed by his system quality that you couldn't really evaluate the differences between the Meitner and Wadia in just a short time frame? I know I have heard excellent systems before and was so shocked at the difference that it was difficult to comprehend what I was hearing let alone trying to compare two components would not have been possible at that time do to being in shock over the differences I was hearing. if you compared the Meitner in your system I'm sure if would have been easier to learn what the exact differences were over the Wadia simply because it's your system and you know what it's capable of and sounds like. I have a Wadia 861 statement it will be upgraded to SE status and latest statement specification including the new speed of light magnet modifications by GNSC in October I am hoping to do a comparison against Frankg's CDSD/DCC2 combination [hello Frank has the Meitner CDSD transport arrived yet?]. After October sometime if possible. I will post the results if it occurs. Justin Ingram

OK, so you want me to compare the Meitner to the Wadia? I think that is a fair question. After all, this forum is really here so that we could discuss different equipment and rely on others experience and opinion of this stuff. After all, not all of us have the availability or time to travel and listen. And of course, it should be fun to discuss this stuff too. I know that I relied heavily on others opinion in putting together my system.

As many have pointed-out, I have not made mention of the Meitner characteristics. This was on purpose. After all, there are countless others with far more experience who have summarized their thoughts far more eloquently than I could. What could I add to all of that? And far be it for me to give less than the highest praise for a piece of equipment that undoubtedly gives tremendous satisfaction to so many. Additionally, I didn’t want to create a firestorm of controversy. I knew that regardless of how neutral I cast things, there would be those that need to read into them and make interpretations and accusations and excuses and other rationalizations. My whole integrity would be called into question for sure.

I have to say that I went into this with an open mind. For the past year, I have read the hype. The mantra from the date of inception and the debuts at all the shows have been “the best”, “nothing comes close (and I have heard it all)”, “digital perfection”, etc. It would seem that if anything could unite the audiophile world, this would be it. I was prepared to potentially sell my current CD player if it was clearly trumped as I expected it would be. Selling my set-up wouldn’t be that big of a deal. I had read about all those that plunked down a credit card and bought a Meitner on impulse.

The whole point of the thread was just to raise the possibility that the idea of a piece of equipment that is ‘the best’, perhaps does not exist. Can’t a handful of top CD players share the limelight? Isn’t there some room for variation in personal preference?

The CD player is great. As I said before, there is no denying that this is the pinnacle of CD playback. I am sure I would be quite happy with it if I bought it. But when I listened, I have to say that my jaw didn’t drop, my eyes didn’t pop out of my head, and the clouds didn’t part the sky. Was I expecting too much? Did all the discussion perhaps set things up so that anything less than being propelled to audio nirvana would be a bit of a disappointment? After all, I was expecting a revolution. I was expecting something I had never heard before. I was expecting to be blown-away by my first taste of SACD. Surely, it would rank right up there with my wedding day and my son being born.

So in the end, I believe that both players can be placed at the top. They each have their own attributes and characteristics. Of course, everybody would like to know what they are. In the grandest sense of generality, I would put it this way. The Meitner conveys the music with smoothness and lushness, and the Wadia conveys the music with clarity and precision. That’s it. Don’t over-read into it. Don’t say that the Meitner is as detailed as the Wadia without the harshness. Don’t say this means the Meitner is like vinyl. And don’t say that this means the Wadia is unmusical. It is simply the most striking difference between the two. Neither has absolute correctness. One just has to realize what is important to them when they listen to music and recreate what they enjoy about a performance.

Here’s a general guideline for those trying to decide between the 2. If you really like much of what the Wadia 800 series does, then you will probably love the highest refinement of these characteristics. If you dislike most of what the Wadia 800 series does, then you will probably not like it even with these refinements. After all, if you don’t like the Wadia philosophy, then spending huge sums of money will probably not let you like it.

I remain open minded to hear the Meitner again. Jerry has new speakers on order, and I'd love to know how these sound. If he is willing, we could do another comparison once he get's these up and running in the next several months.

So here's to a good, civil discussion,
Rob

Welcome to the fray, Robm321- I'm surprised you've remained in the wings this long.

A little digital background. For 5+ happy years I owned a Wadia 270/27i combo, with a mid level GNSC mod performed in year 4. Next- Audio Aero Cap. Mk.II. Next- Meitner Philips SACD 1000, Switchman II, DAC 6. Current- Meitner CDSD & DCC2.

It seems reasonable to try to factor price differences into the overall performance appraisals of these components. The DCC2 is quite different than the Wadia players or seperates in that it has a full and seperate pre-amp section, in addition to the DAC. Yes, the Wadia has the built in output stage and digital volume control to drive amplifiers directly. The output stage is on a par with an average quality pre-amp ( I think I'm being fairly generous here ) and the digital volume control is quite flawed in design and practice when compared to an analog domain volume control, as might be found in say, the DCC2.

All that being said, the price of a Wadia 861 with full GNSC mods is less, I think, than the CDSD / DCC2. The 27/270ix combo with full mods is more expensive, again- I think, than the CDSD / DCC2. Based solely on my previous experience, I beleive that the performance of the CDSD / DCC2 beats any and all of the above mentioned units in CD playback AND offers SACD playback AND a truly excellent pre-amp section.

The bummer with the Wadia gear is that you MUST use a pre-amp to get the highest level, of performance possible from the units. If you add a $6k-$10k pre-amp, plus $1k-$2k interconnect, plus a $1k-$2k powercord to the modded 270 / 27ix you've WAY exceeded the cost of the CDSD / DCC2 and, IMHO, have achieved inferior performance.

The only potential hole in my argument is that- #1- that the current model fully GNSC modded 270 / 27ix or 861 is WAY better than my mid level GNSC modded 270 / 27i. I'm giving everyone a big target to nit pick at here, if anyone wants to.

I think the most salient points are- If I had an inkling that the latest and greatest that Wadia has to offer was superior to my 1st foray into the Meitner camp, I certainly wouldn't have upgraded to the CDSD / DCC2 and I would have, instead, purchased a hot-rodded 270 / 27ix, with attendant pre-amp, interconnect and power cord. That would satisfy, neither my objective of superior sonic results, nor any prudent price/performance equation.

This thread's back on the right track.

Here is the other listeners perspective on the comparison sessions involving the Meitner and Wadia equipment. Rob and I tried both playback systems in each others homes. Total listening time was about two hours in each system. In the context of this one day of comparison, there really was no "winner" or "loser" as both systems are at or near the top of what is capable in digital playback. Having said that, there were clear differences between the two systems and personal preference would dictate what sounded the "best". I like to evaluate equipment based on how musical it is and how connected it makes me feel to the performance. The Meitner gear provided a full, smooth and rich sound. The Wadia gear had a tendency to be more analytical, detailed and at times lean. The Meitner gear put the listener in the front five rows. The Wadia gear put the listener in the middle of the theater. I like intimate sounding music: jazz, small combo's and vocals. Rob likes large scale music: classical, symphonic orchestra and opera.
Because of the intimate presentation tendencies of the Meitner I preferred it to the Wadia as it gave me a greater sense of musicality and connectedness to the music. I only listen to classical music at the start of ballgames (I think the Star Spangled Banner is classical???), so I don't know if I would prefer the Meitner over the Wadia on large scale music. Rob clearly preferred the Wadia on his choice of music.
Aside from the playback, there were a few minor system differences that could make a difference to a potential buyer. The Meitner has a built-in preamp section that can accomodate other playback media ie analog or another cd player. The Wadia sounds best when used at the higher volume settings. The Meitner has no such volume setting issues. The Wadia readouts are quite small and very hard to read from across the room (at least for these old eyes). The Meitner readouts are about three times as large making distant viewing quite easy. The Wadia remote had to be pointed directly at the equipment. The Meitner remote had a wider scope of operation. The Meitner offers SACD playback and the Wadia only plays redbook cds. For anyone into or considering SACD, the Meitner is simply breathtaking.
I think anyone who owns either system should consider themselves quite fortunate. I would like to thank Rob for a very interesting day of listening!!!
Jerry