There's a lot more bass in a 6.5" driver than most of you think

I had a brief email exchange with him about my Walsh DIY's a couple of years ago.
He generously applauded my attempt, and wished me good luck.

It's been suggested to me that I ought to use an L/R 2nd order passive with my 2-way versions....

I think I might do just that....Just Because. *S*

...but I'll include a bi-amp option anyway...being the 'active guy I is...;)

RIP, Sir...and thanks for all of us.

;), Eric..

erik_squires: "I am against religious advocacy of any particular methodology. EQs, room treatment and multiple subs are all useful choices. "

 Hello Erik,
    I'm getting closer to 100% agreement with you on the effectiveness of all 3 methodologies contributing to the quality of bass in one's system and room: EQ, bass room treatments and multiple subs.  As I've stated and based on personal experience, I was already convinced that multiple subs is an excellent solution in my system even without the EQ and room treatments methods utilized at all.
     In a fortunate and timely occurrence relevant to this topic, I just received and installed some GIK room treatments.  My complete order consisted of 10 cartons of room treatments intended to improve my room for all frequencies in the audible spectrum but I decided to initially just install the bass room treatments to better isolate and access their effectiveness on the bass performance in my room.  These installed bass room treatments consist of stacked triangular bass traps (GIK named them TRI Traps) in all 4 corners and some 5.25" thick rectangular bass trap panels(GIK named them 244 panels) along the front and rear walls of my room.  
     As you may recall, I was a bit concerned that adding bass room treatments might negatively effect the already extremely good bass performance I had already attained without the use of any bass room treatments or EQ at all. But I was convinced by the consistent advice from Duke Lejeune, you and GIK Acoustics that bass room treatments, mainly bass traps, would do no harm and only prove to further improve the bass performance perception in my room.  It was hard for me to imagine how the bass performance in my room and system could get even better in any bass quality but I decided to give the bass traps a try, anyways.
     So, I positioned the stacked pairs of GIK bass traps in all 4 corners and played some familiar acoustic music with good bass (CD versions of the Some Devil album by Dave Mathews and theBrushtail Fairytales by Jack Johnson).  I think it's important to state that these are only my initial impressions after installing the bass traps yesterday and listening for a relatively short period of time, my impressions may change after more extensive listening time. The results were somewhat surprising to me.
    Your advise was correct, I can discern no negative effects from the addition of the corner bass traps.  The bass remained just as smooth, fast detailed, powerful, dynamic and natural with the bass traps deployed as went not utilized.  But I didn't discern any improvements in any bass quality, with the possible exceptions of bass detail and depth, either.
     Unexpectedly, however, I did notice an improvement in my system's midrange clarity and the level of detail within the soundstage illusion, too.  This was a pleasant surprise that I enjoy but currently find difficult to explain.  I do expect further improvements in my system's midrange and treble performance quality once I install the numerous GIK absorption and diffusion panels I ordered and have received but the midrange improvements of adding bass traps was completely unexpected.
     So, I currently believe that multiple subs and bass room treatments are both valid methods of improving an individual's overall system bass performance.  That's 2 of the 3 methods, that you suggested as good methods of improving bass performance, that I can confirm as effective based on my personal experiences and I strongly suspect EQ is also an effective method.  
     I'm currently hesitant to add EQ to my system since my system currently just requires adjusting the cutoff frequency and the volume on my 4-sub DBA  bass system's sub amp/control unit, I don't believe it's necessary for bass improvement in my system/room and I believe simplicity is a benefit.
      One of my main intentions of this post is to let you know that I agree with you that EQ, room treatments and multiple subs are all effective methods of improving bass performance.  
     My other main intention is to let you know that I'm not sure or overly concerned with whether or not you are including me as a religious advocate of the multiple sub DBA method, since I've found this method to be the most effective method based on my experience and the only one of the 3 methods you mentioned that represents a very good solution all by itself.  
     In matters of supreme beings and supreme home audio bass performance, I naturally but also philosophically, consciously and deliberately attempt to remain agnostic. I prefer to base my decisions on matters of personal choice on more scientific, pragmatic, personally experienced and logical factors when possible.  
    However, I believe a belief in a supreme being requires a bit of a leap of faith but a belief in the effectiveness of  room treatments, multiple subs and likely even EQs only requires an audition. 

Thanks for your wise advice,
                   Tim

Unexpectedly, however, I did notice an improvement in my system’s midrange clarity and the level of detail within the soundstage illusion, too.

@noble100

I literally just read a posting that explains this. Look at the comments from Dr. Kippel:

https://audioxpress.com/article/zero-phase-in-studio-monitors

I quote him below:

For the same reason amplitude modulation (a bass signal f1< 100 Hz modulates a high frequency signal f2> 300 Hz) generates much more differences than phase modulation, aka Doppler).

Of course, it is possible you just had higher order room modes too. :)

I’m currently hesitant to add EQ to my system since my system currently just requires adjusting the cutoff frequency and the volume on my 4-sub DBA bass system’s sub amp/control unit, I don’t believe it’s necessary for bass improvement in my system/room and I believe simplicity is a benefit.

Honestly you’ve done plenty, besides, doing EQ correctly requires a great deal of measurement and fine judgement. I’m not religious about adding EQ when none is required either. In my own space I have a lot of GIK and have lived happily with no EQ until recently adding Roon. The EQ changes I’ve made anyway have been pretty subtle. Now play some Holtz or the sound track to Battlestar Galactica. :)

Hello Erik,
     Thanks for the audioxpress article, very interesting about phase and zero phase in recording and playback. It seems like the effects of phase linearity and accuracy are subtle, also.  
     Yes, I liked dealing with Mike Major of GIK on my free room analysis and I'm very impressed with the effectiveness and quality of their room treatments thus far.  I'm very optimistic about the detailed room treatment plan I created with the very capable assistance of Mike.  
     Phase one was the installation of the stacked GIK Tri Traps in all 4 corners and some GIK 244 bass trap panels along the front and rear walls.  Phase two will be having a local Indianapolis hi-end shop, The Audio Solution, install the remaining 12 combination of a balance of absorption and diffusion midrange/treble frequency wall panels throughout my room, with the strategy being mainly diffusion at the front and rear of my room and mainly absorption in-between.
      I'll probably start a thread of the perceived results in a few weeks.  My intent will be to just be honest and describe my impressions as I hear them.
   Thanks again for your honest and useful advice.

Tim

Thanks for the audioxpress article, very interesting about phase and zero phase in recording and playback. It seems like the effects of phase linearity and accuracy are subtle, also.  

You are welcome. One thing I like about Toole a great deal is we hear the same things. Others may find phase and phase linearity big deals, and for them it might be but after lots of listening to Thiel and Vandersteen it is not that big a deal for me. I was thinking of playing with rePhase and Roon to attempt this digitally, but after reading that I'm going to forget about it.

Thanks again for your honest and useful advice.

My pleasure. Glad I helped, I envy your ability to get so much gear installed.  Much more than I can do in an apartment.