Better Subwoofer for 2 channel Music: Focal Utopia Sub or JL Fathom f113


Hello Everyone,

I am looking for a good sub at about the 2K price point and am considering either the Focal Utopia Sub (15" woofer, 1000W RMS) or the JL Fathom f113 V1 (13.5" woofer 2500 RMS)- The fathom being slightly more expensive on the ’used’ market.  Both subs are highly rated and the Fathom seams to be very highly regarded on this site so I would like to try it. At the same time, my speakers are FOCAL Utopia BE series so I think the Utopia Sub will gel nicely and I would be able to save several hundred bucks to put towards other tweaks if I went with the focal sub. Currently I have a Monitor Audio Gold 12 Sub (12" woofer 600W RMS) which is very good, but want to see if either the Utopia or the Fathom is much better,  and I mostly use the Monitor Audio in my HT set up anyway.

Specs wise:

Focal Utopia BE Sub  - 15" woofer, 1000W RMS

JL Fathom f113 V1  - 13.5" woofer 2500W RMS

Both subs go down to ridiculously low Hz.

Usually, I am less into specs and more about hearing music (and not sure how important these specs are anyway) but I am not able to audition either of the subs (let alone in my system) , so kinda shooting in the dark and would appreciate some advise on which way to go as these are also heavy and expensive to move around to deal with!.

I imagine I will keep the new sub for a while.

I’d like the sub to merge with my speakers as seamless as possible, and provide that extra lower-level feeling and punch when needed.

Does anyone have experience with either (or both to compare)? Thank you in advance.


Aside -   My 1 pair of preamp LXR-outs is taken up by the connection to the Amp. So I would connect the sub via one of the two remaining RCA outs from my preamp - is there is a better way?

Ag insider logo xs@2xjmarshak
When you try the JL (I'm quite sure you'll be happy with it), just make absolutely sure that you have it located a minimum of 2ft closer to your listening position than your main speakers!!! There is latency in the subwoofer circuitry, which will delay the sub's signal by at least a few milliseconds. This means that if you add delay (adjust the phase on the JL) the best you can hope for is to be a full wavelength behind the main speaker's bass output, making perfect integration impossible. And any sub with digital circuitry is receiving an analog signal from the amp, converting it to digital (A-D latency), then manipulating it via digital crossover, digital EQ, etc. (more latency), then converting it back to analog (D-A latency) before the signal gets to the driver. The amount of latency varies by manufacturer and design, but it's there. So don't line the sub up with the mains!!!

A perfect subwoofer integration with a high-end stereo requires that (A) the stereo be setup perfectly without the sub, and (B) the sub is setup to roll into the system at the point where the mains give up. This is easier to do if you have sealed main speakers. A bit harder with stats and dipole speakers. And much harder with ported speakers, which usually have surprisingly good anechoic measurements and surprisingly bad in-room response - they often run out of gas around 60Hz and come back with a vengeance around 40HZ (in room), making perfect sub integration difficult. Fortunately, the very low frequencies are more felt than heard. so if you do it right you can get a nice response curve and a visceral gut punch when it's called for.
The only way to not localize a sub, unless it's crossed over hard below 50Hz, is to make sure it's timed perfectly to coincide with the mains. Anything else will sound like a pair of speakers and a sub. If the timing is perfect, it will be glorious!

BTW, I've had lots of audiophiles with Wilsons, Focals, Magenpans, Soundlabs, Vandersteens, etc. tell me that a sub in a 2-channel system is a travesty. And then I measure their system and show them that those high-price speakers aren't putting out ANY accurate information below about 40Hz (again, in-room response). So they're not hearing anything lower than the lowest note on a Fender Bass. No pipe organ bass. No low synth bass. None of the beautiful bass harmonics that the strike on a tympani makes.

If you don't have the fundamentals at <20-40Hz you also don't have any of the rich harmonics that should naturally cascade all the way up into the upper bass ranges. To miss this information is to miss much magic.
A properly integrated subwoofer is a game-changer that you can never un-hear. And an improperly integrated subwoofer will mangle an otherwise adequate system. Do it right, or don't do it!
@audiophil,
BTW, I've had lots of audiophiles with Wilsons, Focals, Magenpans, Soundlabs, Vandersteens, etc. tell me that a sub in a 2-channel system is a travesty.
I won't speak for Wilson, Focal, or your audiophile friends,  but I can say that for Magnepan, Sounlab and Vandersteen, subs, especially Vandersteen subs work extremely well. The use of the high pass filter allows fairly seemless integration. The new Sub 3 subs offers equalization which makes placement even less of an issue.
Bob
gdnrbob: 
"I won't speak for Wilson, Focal, or your audiophile friends, but I can say that for Magnepan, Soundlab and Vandersteen, subs, especially Vandersteen subs work extremely well. The use of the high pass filter allows fairly seemless integration. The new Sub 3 subs offers equalization which makes placement even less of an issue."

  Hello Bob,
     The main point of properly positioning subs in a room, whether it's 1 or 4 subs, is making sure there's not a bass room mode (a spot in the room where the bass sounds exaggerated, attenuated or nonexistent due to bass sound waves and their reflections colliding with one another at various spots in the room) at your listening seat.  Equalizers are able to correct bass mode peaks (heard as bass exaggeration and boominess) at the listening seat but are very limited in their ability to correct bass mode dips and nulls(heard as bass attenuation and nonexistence respectively) at the listening seat because this requires large amounts of amplifier power to correct, the lower the frequency requiring boosting the higher the power required.
      Also, a properly setup and configured Audio Kinesis or custom 4-sub distributed bass array (DBA) system will provide near state of the art bass performance quality not only at the designated listening seat position but throughout virtually any room and seamless integration with any pair of main speakers, including Wilsons, Soundlabs, Vandersteens, Magnepans or any other supposed "difficult to integrate subs with" main speakers.  Here's a link to a professional review that gives a very accurate description of what bass performance quality level to expect.

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system/