Best bass in Earth! Bass that just smells right...
To really set up your subs to their utmost ability without cancellation you need Mini-DSP. It may be fiddly at first but it is acclaimed as one of the best and least expensive solutions available.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4OY0MhMKTc https://www.minidsp.com/ |
phusis420 posts From my experience so far.if you have two subs run them in stereo next to your mains. Basically creating "TRUE" full range speakers. No matter what your mains claim to be on the brochure. If you have more than two Mono is the way to go and aim them away from you like Duke says. Swarm Subs aka more than 3 can act as room treatments by cancelling nodes or adding room nodes to make you smile. Although I am going to test this theory in my room this week. Getting another AMP tomorrow to have 4 independent channels of amplification with separate X overs, phase, and volume control for each of the four 4 subs. I will run them both ways and see what I like best. Also side note 16 ohm with the subs can sound better than 4 ohms even though your getting more juice outta the Bass Amp at 4 ohms. Its past my IQ but it does change the sounds better sometime sometimes not. Just my 2 cents. Allgood! @audiokinesis -- (@brotw posted: " As I understand it, an array of subs would be very effective at smoothing out the bass response of the room over a wider sweet spot. What about spatial cues from bass frequencies? ") Assuming there is stereo information below 80 Hz, rare it may be, and that one, if placement allowed, would like to take advantage of stereo information here, how would you approach connecting a diagonally positioned pair of subs (just 2, not 4) - like, one sub in the front left corner, and one in the rear right corner? Would you still hook them up in stereo being one sub is effectively placed to the left (front), and one is to the right (rear); or, would you rather connect them in mono? |
@haywood310 -- From my experience so far.if you have two subs run them in stereo next to your mains. Basically creating "TRUE" full range speakers. No matter what your mains claim to be on the brochure. If you have more than two Mono is the way to go and aim them away from you like Duke says. Swarm Subs aka more than 3 can act as room treatments by cancelling nodes or adding room nodes to make you smile. Although I am going to test this theory in my room this week. Getting another AMP tomorrow to have 4 independent channels of amplification with separate X overs, phase, and volume control for each of the four 4 subs. I will run them both ways and see what I like best. Also side note 16 ohm with the subs can sound better than 4 ohms even though your getting more juice outta the Bass Amp at 4 ohms. Its past my IQ but it does change the sounds better sometime sometimes not. Thanks for your reply and sharing your experience on the use of dual subs, and where and how to connect them. That's exactly how I'm running mine, closely flanking the mains and in stereo (see my profile). I did consider placing the subs diagonally, but for now the current configuration will remain. I just recently implemented a few acoustical tweaks and a subtle PEQ correction on the subs, and it made a worthwhile difference making the response down low flatter while having a positive influence through the midrange on up. It's amazing what minor tweaks can do, when you know where to put them into effect. |
There is no stereo information at the lowest frequencies. Even if there is, there isn’t. I’m not gonna get into a technical spat over timing either. None of that matters. The simple fact is human beings cannot even hear low frequencies at less than one full cycle. Yes that is a fact. Yeah, science! So timing information or no timing information either way it doesn’t matter because you simply cannot hear it. Both the physics and the psychoacoustics of really low bass are so radically different than midrange and treble I am about ready to give up trying to explain. One in a hundred pays attention and thinks. The rest already have their closed minds made up. But wait! Miller! You are famous for saying your system has taut articulate 3D holographic bass! Liar liar pants on fire! And that’s intellectual and tightly reasoned compared to the mindless repetition that is sure to come. Whatever. Look. What people hear at low frequencies is volume. Period. Higher up we hear all kinds of detail. Down low its volume. Our brains and ears take the volume down low with the detail higher up and from that combination construct the 3D experience of stereo bass. That’s the only explanation that fits all the observable facts. It explains why my 4 and 5 sub systems have exactly as much holographic 3D imaging when run mono as stereo. Exactly. The. Same. So there is stereo, in the sense it can be heard. But there is not, in the sense its really mono. |
@millercarbon -- There is no stereo information at the lowest frequencies. Even if there is, there isn’t. I’m not gonna get into a technical spat over timing either. None of that matters. The simple fact is human beings cannot even hear low frequencies at less than one full cycle. Yes that is a fact. Yeah, science! So timing information or no timing information either way it doesn’t matter because you simply cannot hear it. Let's indeed, to some extent, leave out technicalities - as you already proposed. And yet, you're all over it, right? I'll give you this: whether there is, or how frequently stereo information below, say, 100Hz is actually in the (digital) source material, is debatable. I doubt there's a comprehensive study on this, but I'd welcome more thorough insight on the matter - should it materialize. If stereo information is actually there down low in the source material, you're claiming it wouldn't matter because, as you write, we're not able to hear it. Ok. For stereo in general to matter, where we can aurally perceive it, it'd certainly nail the importance of placement re: timing. In regards to the lowest frequencies, however, what we hear may not be that important, and this could explain why some people fuzz about the importance of symmetrical placement of dual subs: Stereo or not, I'd wager variations of pressurization in the lowest frequencies in regards to the distance and (possibly) direction of two bass sources, are perceivably felt. We may not be to tell exactly where they're coming from, but more importantly some of us can distinguish whether the pressurization is in unison as a combined output with the mains, i.e.: coming from equally distanced and directed sources (again, in relation to the mains) or not. The marker to me is for the integration with the mains to feel the most compelling, and to my experience this comes from placing the two subs symmetrically to the mains, preferable near them. The sonic image just falls into place here. I've tried close to endless combinations of placing my current subs non-symmetrically to my mains in my former listening room, and they never "clicked" the same way with the mains compared to the symmetrical solution. I speculated whether a diagonal placement of the subs in my current abode would make a worthwhile difference in regards to room mode cancellations, but so far I've chosen to trust my findings made earlier. This is not about stubbornly maintaining a position, but rather questioning a categorical approach presented by you that goes contrary to the experience made by some. You say it doesn't matter, but there are those of us who says that it does. Do you think telling us how things (presumably) work suddenly inverts our experience - why the urge to speak for all? Both the physics and the psychoacoustics of really low bass are so radically different than midrange and treble I am about ready to give up trying to explain. One in a hundred pays attention and thinks. The rest already have their closed minds made up. Well, you certainly made up yours on this matter, supported by your beloved science. I can buy "paying attention" - indeed that's paramount when listening and evaluating. However, the thinking part comes up short when failing to take into account the "intel of listening" in forming an opinion that tries to dictate perceived impressions. |
