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The “They are here” vs “You are there” sound topic

Hi all,

I want to start a topic about the “They are here” vs “You are there” type of sound. I have read that different audiophiles usually fall in one of either categories, but what does it actually mean? So here a few questions:

- what is the definition of “They are here” vs “You are there” in your opinion?
- what is the main difference in sound? E.g. soundstage
- which kind of sound do you prefer?
- which type of speakers fall in one or the other category in your opinion?
- what type of sources, amplifiers or even cables fall in one or the other category in your opinion?

For instance, I believe the Esoteric products from Japan fall in the they are here type of sound. Do you feel the same?
128x128richardhk
kenjit
1,771 posts
 
They are here=recordings with no reverb 

You are there=recordings with plenty of reverb 
bryhifi's avatar
bryhifi
374 posts
 
@mijostyn

One clarifier, Mirage M1si and M3si were bi-polar designs -  Otherwise yes on the di-pole assessment and to be honest, from memory, the M1 & M3 did create the largest sound stages I ever heard in my old house.  They also gave me some sharper placement of musicians as compared to the di-poles.  Agree with you on the lack of side reflections allowing deeper into the recordings, especially the Maggies.  
jtcf's avatar
jtcf
1,617 posts
 
No preference.In my smallish room "they are here" is easy to achieve.If I leave the room and head to the kitchen it sounds so much like arriving late to a large venue and hearing the band from the lobby,then "I am there."Our rooms and speaker placement are more important than the brand of components to create the illusion.
richardhk's avatar
richardhk OP
39 posts
 
Still, just to throw it in there, speaker manufacturers have their own house sound or DNA if you will. To stir things up, would you say that in most cases you feel the below speakers tend to emphasise one or the other more:

- B & W = they are here
- Monitor Audio = you are there
- Tidal = you are there
- Sonus Faber = they are here

Just to name a few (I have heard multiple times).
bryhifi's avatar
bryhifi
374 posts
 
Just read this post from Duke and felt it a good view point from a speaker designer. 

01-10-2020 1:51pmOne of the reasons Maggies sound so good is that they generate a lot of spectrally-correct backwave energy. When placed well out into the room, that backwave energy arrives after a relatively long time delay, which is desirable. This mimics, on a smaller scale, what we find in a good seat in a good concert hall: A time-gap in between the direct sound and the strong onset of reflections. According to researcher David Griesinger, the ear being able to separate out the direct sound from the reflections is highly beneficial, and is largely what differentiates a good seat from a bad one in a concert hall. 

In a home audio setting, there is a competition between two sets of venue cues: The venue cues on the recording (whether real or engineered); and the acoustic signature of the listening room. In order for the venue cues on the recording to dominate our perception and enable that elusive "you are there" illusion with a good recording, they must be presented effectively, while the listening room’s inherent "small room signature" is minimized. The backwave of the Maggies can present the recording venue cues effectively, and the long time delay from proper placement tends to minimize "small room signature", so Maggies set up properly can be very enjoyable. 

One of the things an acoustician does in a home audio setting is minimize the early reflections while preserving that energy so it can come back as later reflections. This is conceptually similar to what a good dipole does when set up properly. 

Because it is spectrally correct the backwave also enhances timbre, which again is something reflections do in a good concert or recital hall. 

I realize none of this speaks directly to the question of "what to get after Maggies", but perhaps awareness of what the backwave can contribute is helpful. 

Duke
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