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The “They are here” vs “You are there” sound topic

Hi all,

I want to start a topic about the “They are here” vs “You are there” type of sound. I have read that different audiophiles usually fall in one of either categories, but what does it actually mean? So here a few questions:

- what is the definition of “They are here” vs “You are there” in your opinion?
- what is the main difference in sound? E.g. soundstage
- which kind of sound do you prefer?
- which type of speakers fall in one or the other category in your opinion?
- what type of sources, amplifiers or even cables fall in one or the other category in your opinion?

For instance, I believe the Esoteric products from Japan fall in the they are here type of sound. Do you feel the same?
128x128richardhk
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
10,008 posts
 

@tomic601, for years I too thought the Basement Tapes were recorded on a Revox A77 (perhaps because that is what is pictured on the front cover of the official LP release ;-). But in his book Testimony, Robbie Robertson lists the recording equipment Garth Hudson used in the basement of Big Pink all throughout 1967:

- A half dozen Norelco mics (dictation mics?!).

- A couple of "little" Altec mixers.

- An Ampex 2-channel/4-track stereo reel-to-reel recorder (consumer, not pro), running at either 7.5 or 3.75 ips.

- Two speakers for playback listening.

- Headphones on which Garth set mic levels.

Thank God for Garth Hudson!

audiokinesis
2,753 posts
 
Maghister wrote: " Thanks for your very interesting post...

You made me understand in a better way my intuitive use of absorbing and diffusive ratio in my small room...I use reflectors to diffuse the sound in a way that gives me the first venues cues...I create that with my ears experiments and intuition and for me your explanation makes more sense of my experience for myself now indeed... "

Thank you sir! Very glad that some of what I wrote is consistent with your experience and intuition. This is a topic that I am still learning about (it figures into my product development efforts) and the above post is a condensed version of my current understanding.

Duke
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
The Linaeum Model 10 speakers I had many years ago threw a sound stage so enveloping a friend said, "You are swimming in it." This 2 way speaker used the linaeum tweeter, a unique sort of dipole. I always thought that dipole shooting sound out the back (but not to the sides) had to have something to do with the incredible you are there sound. Thanks Duke for explaining so clearly just how that works.
kenjit
1,771 posts
 
Personally I do place tonality ahead of spatiality on my list of priorities, but tonality was not the topic of this thread. In general I agree with the approach of fixing first that which matters most.
you say that but your focus is and always has been off axis response. That is your holy grail. The problem is its not hard to do what you so eagerly seek to achieve. Cheap dsp speakers costing a few hundred bucks can give you smooth perfect off axis response if thats the goal. 

So even if your goal was the key to perfect sound, it has already been done and very cheaply at that. 

your injunction to "forget about the off axis response" overlooks a vital aspect of tonality:

No it does not. My definition of tonality is completely different than yours. Tonality, according to my definition is the area well below the crossover point. So it has nothing to do with off axis response. 

mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,209 posts
 
My definition of tonality is completely different than yours. Tonality, according to my definition is the area well below the crossover point. So it has nothing to do with off axis response.
Perhaps I am not the only one but I am sorry to say that perhaps I understand anything but that definition does not makes any sense for me....A more scientific mind help please! 


In my experience and experiment we cannot separate tonality and the dynamics of the room and the speakers resonance and workings....It is a linked system dynamics....
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