I do enjoy reading certain individual’s posts, people with actual engineering decree and knowledge surpassing 99.99% of people here, like Atmasphere’s posts but people like that are few and far in between. This places has slowly been losing its luster and usefulness, for me at least. But to each his own. If you can truly be selective as to who you listen to, it can still be a useful place at times. But I think I’ve had it. At least for awhile.
Is Parasound on to something? Or, How important is crossover management in preamps?
How important is crossover management in mid-fi receiver?
I auditioned Parasound separates yesterday — P6 and A23+ and the dealer emphasized how useful it would be to be able to control the crossover *both* for the subwoofer (I have a Rel 328) and the bookshelves (TBD, but I'm looking at Dynaudios and Salk WOW1's). Not many preamps have this, and I'm wondering how important it is. I'm also quite interested in PS Audio's separates (Stellar Gaincell + S300) but they do not have these, nor do they have tone controls.
So how valuable is Parasound's controls? What is the significance (positive or negative) control over the crossover — especially of the *main* speakers themselves? The positive, I read, is that it (a) allows mains to do a more precise job by relieving them of the burden of the bottom end, and (b) it increase the efficacy of the power amp in driving the mains. Is there a negative? Is there something "improper" about limiting the demands on mains, especially given their designed frequency range?
As you can see, the answer to this question helps determine whether Parasound has a major value-adding feature in these crossover controls.
Obviously, at the end of the day, auditioning pre's and poweramps (or integrateds) is crucial, as is match to speakers, etc. But if this feature is very important for fitting sub and mains together — and fitting speakers to room environments — then it will help me weigh the Parasound or any other preamp with this feature.
P.S. To those who keep seeing my newbie questions, I hope they're not irksome. I'm posting so often because I'm researching purchases for a whole system, of some cost, and so I'm really digging into these questions about all aspects. And I'm having a blast.
I auditioned Parasound separates yesterday — P6 and A23+ and the dealer emphasized how useful it would be to be able to control the crossover *both* for the subwoofer (I have a Rel 328) and the bookshelves (TBD, but I'm looking at Dynaudios and Salk WOW1's). Not many preamps have this, and I'm wondering how important it is. I'm also quite interested in PS Audio's separates (Stellar Gaincell + S300) but they do not have these, nor do they have tone controls.
So how valuable is Parasound's controls? What is the significance (positive or negative) control over the crossover — especially of the *main* speakers themselves? The positive, I read, is that it (a) allows mains to do a more precise job by relieving them of the burden of the bottom end, and (b) it increase the efficacy of the power amp in driving the mains. Is there a negative? Is there something "improper" about limiting the demands on mains, especially given their designed frequency range?
As you can see, the answer to this question helps determine whether Parasound has a major value-adding feature in these crossover controls.
Obviously, at the end of the day, auditioning pre's and poweramps (or integrateds) is crucial, as is match to speakers, etc. But if this feature is very important for fitting sub and mains together — and fitting speakers to room environments — then it will help me weigh the Parasound or any other preamp with this feature.
P.S. To those who keep seeing my newbie questions, I hope they're not irksome. I'm posting so often because I'm researching purchases for a whole system, of some cost, and so I'm really digging into these questions about all aspects. And I'm having a blast.
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- 30 posts total
@almarg and @douglas_schroeder and all, I never complained about axes to grind; I am just trying to get straight. So, I emailed Jim Salk about this question, giving him all the information about my sub, which amps, etc. The short version of his answer is that crossovers for the main speakers can help. Here’s Jim (I hope it’s ok that I’m quoting him): "I normally let me speakers run full range and bring the sub up under them. But, of course, I am always using much larger speakers. In the case of the WOW1’s, they are down 3db at 48Hz. So I would set the subwoofer crossover to 55 or 60Hz if you wanted to play them full range. But there is a case that can be made to use a preamp/processor to set the crossover higher. For example, most home theater processors would probably define the WOW1’s as being a “small” speaker and use 80Hz as the crossover point, running the sub with no crossover (all pass) since the processor will only send audio under 80Hz to the sub. The benefit of this is increased power handling. The deeper a speaker plays, the more cone movement is required. The cone can only move so far (XMAX) before it bottoms out. But when eliminating some of the bass duties, not as much cone movement is required so it can play louder without bottoming out. Of the two, I would probably opt for the latter approach since it would allow your system to play louder without bottoming out the WOW1 woofers." |
@cal3713 Thank you kindly for the nice words. I always value and enjoy your posts as well. @hilde45, Excellent answer by Mr. Salk, as Doug had prognosticated. I would add that even if a woofer does not bottom out, as it approaches that condition the sonics of a speaker are likely to be adversely affected in various ways. And that figures to be especially true in the case of the WOW1, given that its woofer is undoubtedly handling just about the entire midrange, as well as the bass. (The woofer it uses has a recommended frequency range of 60 Hz to 3500 Hz; the tweeter it uses has a recommended frequency range of 2.5 kHz to 25 kHz). Also, if you were to go with a different speaker now or in the future, as I mentioned earlier the P6 would provide you with the flexibility of being able to conveniently remove its high pass filter from the signal path, via the switch it provides on its rear panel for that purpose. Good luck. Regards, --Al |
@almarg Thanks for that information. At this point, choosing will come down to listening and then seeing if the Parasound is good enough so that that extra feature tips the scales towards it. If I didn’t prefer the Parasound, though, I supposed I could get an external crossover and have that feature with a different preamp — perhaps with more precision, even? That would allow me to get the preamp I like best *and* having the control a crossover gives. If I have this wrong, or if adding a crossover is a complicated affair, please set me straight. This solution could be the one that splits the difference.s I learned something here, but not quite enough to make a judgment about Parasound's approach. www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2_gRAbnzyk |
No amount of tech discussion or specifications analysis resolves such questions. Listening comparison is the final arbiter especially since preferences vary so much between hobbyists. Be aware that if you ever wish to upgrade and sell speakers anything unusual or customization taking it away from stock and requiring specific components would likely devastate the resale. This may sound tough, but trying to be helpful; At your level along the performance spectrum the difference between your. Choices is rather small. It is one of dozens of potential upgrades and improvements in the field of domestic audio. Your selection will have only a smaller nudge toward upper end sound. It takes many such incremental, or fewer huge moves to get very high end results. To attain far more significant changes you will need to move up the speaker food chain, I. E. Larger floor standing speakers: in my experience bookshelf and sub is not as capable as large floor standing speakers. :) |
- 30 posts total