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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,030 posts
 
Ok, Tvad. I'll think about those!
At the moment, I thought I might be able to do (at the least) something from Quicksilver, e.g. $1295 QS Line stage preamp + $2995 60 QS Watt Mono (60 watts) = $4290
and I thought there were others in my notes which could get in under $6k, but I have to go dig them out.

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jackd
1,074 posts
 
@hilde45 

Have you looked into the Rogue gear?  The ST-100 and one of their preamps would work well with your gear and you should be able to strike a deal somewhere plus the re-sale is good. 
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
From a specification standpoint I don’t see any issues pairing the Quicksilver Line Stage and 60 watt mono amps with low efficiency speakers such as the Salk WOW1, provided that peak SPLs in the mid to upper 90s at the listening position are sufficient for your purposes.

The high damping factor (20) of the amp, which corresponds to a very low output impedance for a tube amp, seems fine for use with such speakers with respect to the tonal effects I referred to earlier that can result from amp/speaker impedance interactions.

If the speakers were much more efficient (e.g. in the mid to upper 90s) I would be a bit concerned that the high gain of the preamp (18 db) might limit the useful range of the volume control to very low settings. But that seems very unlikely with 84 db speakers.

I have no experience with Quicksilver products, so I can’t comment on their sonics. But the impression I’ve gained from comments by others that I’ve seen here and elsewhere over the years has been very favorable.

As Tvad said, "go for it!"

Best regards,
-- Al

hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,030 posts
 
@almarg Thank you for taking a closer look at the specs. I've saved that information for down the road!
@jackd thanks for the Rogue tip.
@Tvad, I was thinking about what you said — the list available with the criteria I listed (well-known, easy to re-sell, under $6k, mates well with the 84db speakers to good listening levels, new, and not from boutique).

So, what can I compile from my notes?

IF I accept the minimum watts for driving the 84 db speaker to what Jim Salk indicated (at least 30 wpc for tube), I get the following list:

Black Ice F360 Hybrid tube preamplifier $1995.00 + Fusion F35 Tube Integrated Amplifier (60wpc) $1,999 = $3994
Cary SLI-80HS integrated amplifier 40 wpc $4495
Erhard-Audio Power Amps "Basie" 38wpc $1850
McIntosh MA252 hybrid $3500 100 wpc
Prima Luna EVO 400 tube Integrated amp 38 or 70 wpc $4999
Quicksilver $1295 QS Line stage preamp + $2995 60 QS Watt Mono (60 watts) = $4290
Quicksilver pre and Mono 120 Amplifier (120 watts), $3995 + $1295 = $5290
Rogue Audio Sphinx v3 tube Integrated Amplifier 100 wpc $1,595.00
Rogue Cronus Magnum tube integrated 100 wpc $3000
Schiit Freya+ and Vidar $1498 ($899 + $699)

I left off deHavilland Ultraverve because I don't know what it would pair with. But it might get together w/ something good for less than $6k

So, that's the list I came up with. I suspect that a couple of these might get eliminated by some additional scrutiny (e.g. you might think they're not quite at the quality level or easy to sell, etc.).

Anyway, I'm just trying to collect my thoughts and would be interested in what you, others, folks would add or subtract.
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