Phono stage for 0.2mv cartridge?

I am using my 0.2mv cartridge with the preamp phono stage with good results, slightly more apparent volume than the 0.3mv cartridge and the Canary. Which kinda supports my position regarding how much gain I might want.

If the cartridge specs are accurate and are defined on a consistent basis the 0.3 mv cartridge provides 3.52 db more output than the 0.2 mv cartridge under the same conditions. And if the Canary phono stage and the C100’s built-in phono stage are performing to spec the C100’s phono stage provides 3.5 db more gain than the Canary. So those two differences should cancel out, resulting in exactly the same volume settings for the two cases.

However the "if" I began that paragraph with may be a bit too "iffy" to draw any firm conclusions.

BTW, unrelated to all of this I’ll mention FYI that I would expect that you are using the 1.2 volt sensitivity setting of the MC2000, rather than the 2.5 volt setting, to achieve a reasonable gain match between the two amps, assuming you are using the same output taps on both amps and the same type of interconnections to both (i.e. unbalanced or balanced). Although even in that case the higher powered MC1000 amp would still be providing about 2.4 db more gain than the lower powered MC2000 amp, probably resulting in a slight over-emphasis of the bass. (As far as I can see neither amp provides a level adjustment other than the high/low sensitivity switch on the MC2000).

Regards,
-- Al

Like Atmasphere suggesting something went wrong in Dallas. I can not believe it would be a loading problem. Bad cartridge? Bad something. I believe ARC makes phono amps with 72 dB of gain but you really should not need it. I knew somebody who had their cartridge demagnatized. 

One thing that isn't mentioned with gain specs is the noise. A preamp with 70dB might be noisier than one with less gain (although certainly one would hope its the other way 'round). Based on the descriptions here it sounds like one phono section is noisier than the other; the gain thing does not seem to be the issue.


BTW one rule of thumb to observe is this- all phono sections have noise. It really doesn't matter what you hear when you lift the cartridge from the LP; what matters is when the cartridge is in the groove, that the phono preamp noise is less than that of a silent groove. If not, it will interfere in quiet passages. When tubes get weak in a tube phono section, noise is the most likely symptom. The noise will build up as the transconductance of the tubes falls off. This is also true of semiconductors but it usually takes them a bit longer :)

At any rate I'm leaning towards the idea that there is a malfunction or incorrect setting somewhere.

I respect these opinions but I think the system is OK.  It sounds really good to me, and I admit that my concerns are kind of fringe, because the volumes being discussed are higher than I think most folks usually listen at.  Actually, the gain is the larger irritant to me.  I know all phono stages are a little noisy, and the tube stage is louder than my SS phono stage which draws it to my attention.  But live rock albums should play at realistic levels and I cannot achieve those (quite) with the lower gain combination.
  Since they're right in front of me I do watch the big blue meters, and I am used to being able to peg the meters on the MC2000.  I can do so using the 0.2mv cartridge and the preamp phono stage but using the Canary I can only get about 90% of meter travel at full volume.
  Al, you are right about the amps.  When I contemplated buying the MC2000 I called McIntosh and asked if my proposed configuration would work.  The people there surprised at the question but finally decided that the amps should match OK.  Of course they didn't, and I have to pad the monoblocks down a little.  These days I use a little inexpensive one-input one-output balanced passive preamp I found on Amazon.  Works great and is easier to use than the inline attenuators I used to employ.  This limits system output to the MC2000 but there is so much power, and the preamp has a healthy enough output that any limitations are beyond my listening requirements.  My first 'real' system was an actively biamped setup using a homemade (by an EE major at Cal Poly) crossover and I had fun playing with it for many years, giving me a little background on this stuff.
  Previously I was using a Benz Ruby H with a Lucaschek phono stage.  The two were voiced together, I believe, and work well.  Using that combination I was getting volume close to the 0.3mv/Canary setup, could just peg the meters at top volume, and was pretty satisfied.
  I hear what everyone is saying that something isn't right, but so far everything still seems to point to my original contention.  The 73db of gain in my preamp's phono stage is fine.  Works great.  I was hoping to match that performance with a higher quality outboard unit.  I am aware of a couple of units but they are out of my price range, and I am hoping for suggestions to increase the field.

Bill
  

Another concern would be loudspeaker sensitivity.  When I listen to my 83dB sensitivity electrostatic speakers and use .2mV MC cartridge a 60dB phono amp is not enough.  That is why I use a Pass Labs phono amp which can supply 78dB of gain.