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Soundstage Confusion

I'm in the midst of choosing a new amp for my listening room. Currently, I'm using a NAD M22v2. I just auditioned at home the LTA power amps, and really like their ZTOL40 Reference amp. I also have my faithful Pioneer SPEC-4 that I've had for over 35 years. My components:

Herron VTSP 3A(r02) pre amp
Innous Zenith MKII media streamer
Small Green Computer i7 Roon for DSP device
Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE DAC
Technics SL-1200G TT
Parasound JC3jr phone pre
Tannoy DC8Ti speakers

My room is 13.5x11.5x8.  I've positioned the speakers 34" from the back wall and 22" from the side walls. I've been futzing with speaker placement and my listening position for a while. I have no room treatment yet.

With the NAD and my current setup, I get a huge soundstage and room filling sound. The speakers disappear, but imaging is awful where voices and instruments are well forward of and outside the speakers, with little depth. With the ZTOL40, and no other changes, the main voices are centered between the speakers; instrument separation is clear and overall imaging is great; the soundstage is between the speakers; and the speakers do NOT disappear.  

To test soundstage and imaging, I'm using Chesky Records Jazz Sampler & Audiophile Test files that I downloaded from HDTracks.com, in particular track 10 Introduction and Left-Right Imaging Test, track 11 Listening Environment Diagnostic Recording, and track 12 Acoustic Soundstage (depth) Test. The ZTOL40 passes all tests with flying colors. The NAD fails them all.  I moved the NAD to my rec room system in place of the Pioneer amp. Soundstage is between the speaker; imaging is OK, and voices are centered.  Later today, I'm going to hookup the Pioneer amp to my main system and run the Chesky tests.  That should be interesting.

Before all of this craziness started, I had a different rack.  This past week, I replaced it with a Butcher Block 4 shelf rack. Before that rack, my speaker and sitting positions were slightly different; the NAD soundstage was between the speakers; and imaging was fine.  With all other things being equal, I'm finding it hard to believe that a different rack and/or an amplifier change could cause such a drastic change in soundstage and imaging.  Any ideas anyone?

 
128x128oldschool1948
adameos
66 posts
 
My 2 cents, which i am sure no-one will read...Assuming your speakers are up to the task and operating correctly;

1. DAC plays a key role in imaging. Some project a wider and deeper soundstage, while others focus the center image more. I’ve found a USB bridge to make a huge difference over straight usb. Straight usb sounds flatter and more muddled. I have dacs that do a better job running into the s/pdif coax input. 
2. In above usb bridge approach, Usb and coax cables can have a major influence on un-muddling and organizing / de-homogenizing the sound.

3. Interconnects and speaker cables will influence the way the soundstage is presented. Some do wider and or deeper. Others do heighth better and focus on center image solidity, sometimes at the cost of sacrificing image organization and resolution overall.

The higher resolution my system becomes the more i hear how these elements all play a significant role in the soundstage focus, clarity, size and organization.



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wlutke
727 posts
 
Sounds a bit like absolute phase.  Have you tried the invert button? 
oldschool1948's avatar
oldschool1948 OP
502 posts
 
After overlooking the real problem for several days, I walked away from it.  Today, I figured out my problem.  I'm embarrassed to say, it was me.  While moving my NAD out of the old rack and placing it on the floor, I somehow moved the Bridge switch from Stereo to Bridge mode. 

What can I say?  Thanks to everyone for trying to help me and please forgive the false alarm.  One thing for sure, I'll make other mistakes in my life, but it won't be that one again.
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,825 posts
 
Awesome. At least you didn't send a cartridge to another continent for a repair when nothing was wrong with it like yours truly. 
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