Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?

Would you mind describing your setup and the AudioKinesis gear used?

Tyray: I happen to own also Audiokinesis Azel's speakers, to be honest I was shopping around for speakers not subs and found Duke (and Jim Romeyn) at RMAF 2018 (or 17?) and from all the rooms I visited that was (to me) the best sounding room, I'm not saying AK's speakers are the best, many other manufacturers make good speakers as well, we all know at these shows the hotels rooms have their own problems and limitations so what Duke have done with his speakers is give you the opportunity to tune the speakers (and subs) to any room with no external analog or digital DSP, this could be done with RoomEQ as well (which has its own limitations like format changing etc), anyways apologies as I have a hard time following thread directly and I deviated here, my Swarm sub system was a byproduct as I was shopping only for speakers and had subs already PSA and SVS.On point. I have Azel's speakers which consists on a beryllium compression driver for highs and mids and a midbass woofer for lower mids and bass down to 55 Hz, this midbass driver reproduces bass with extreme tonality accuracy on the low registers it reaches, to me it is one of these speakers "forte", the 4 passive subs I have are crossed around 65 Hz, Duke's Azels are standmounts on top of what he describes as a SuperStand which contains one sub and one (what he calls) space generator but that is not relevant here, just that the sub is in the stand saving space of having a separate sub. His subs have very very low footprint but what they lack on area they have on tallness (hence my wife putting ornaments on top) the good thing is you can fit them anywhere.
So four subs and two 1000 W amps (the one Duke referenced above). One amp powers the 2 left subs one amp for the right 2 subs. Crossed at 65 Hz, gain for each amp around 50% (more than that it provides still accurate bass but not needed and unbalances the system IMO), there is about 90 degrees phase difference between the left and right subs on my system.
I'm enclosing some pictures at this link
bit.ly/luismasystem
I consider myself an audiophile but I don't have as many years as you most had to deepen your knowledge on audio systems etc. my knowledge of all this is superficial and if you want details I'm sure that Duke will chime in
By the way @audiokinesis Duke thank you for providing the great explanation of your thoughts on sealed vs vented which always made me think about that paradigm, I understand 80% of it, based on what you are describing and since I have a "difficult" room based on REW measurements (I don't know where did put the response curve screenshot) could you say (Duke) that your vented subs overcome the irregular room response just as well as sealed or better because:1. I'm using 4 of them (vs 1 or 2) which requires less gain and allows for bass waves cancelling each other at almost most listening positions2. They are designed targeting the 20 - 80 Hz band better to integrate with your speakers (or any speaker which drivers reach down only to 80 Hz?)
Tyray: I ranted through my post and wasn't able to explain directly your question, hope you could gather from my writing the essence of what you want to know about my system. I sold my PSA and SVS (great subs by the way) for the superior performance of 4 smaller subs and the convenience of saving space due to footprint and integration with speakers and cost savings over 4 equal subs from different manufacturers.
PSA and SVS are great brands again and if you have the space and the money definitely you could do good as well with these
If you look at my system my source is completely digital (at this moment) but EVERYTHING else is analog controlled, no DSP or anything and I looked at MiniDSP, DSpeaker, Trinnov, (there is one I forget the name $4000 - $6000 which was IMO the closest one for me to consider) and since all of these rehydrate digital (with its limitations) I decided that RoomEQ using analog devices is better for my system than going digital downstream, so I avoid that when possible.

DEQX is the other method I considered to integrate everything but since I can do most of the correction analogue and since I am not personally interested in a complete flat room response I put the correction aside for the time being

Hello luisma31,

     For someone who claims to not know a lot about audio, I think you're doing pretty well and have a nice system.  I think you benefited by talking with Duke and James at RMAF, they're both very knowledgeable and won't steer you wrong.  James Romeyn talked me into trying the 4-sub Swarm/Debra distributed bass array system and I'm always so glad that he took the time and effort to do that.  It was a true bass revelation to me just as it seems to have been for you.  As you know, it provides near state of the art bass performance and you made a great choice that will work well even if you move or change main speakers. 
      I find it interesting that we both operate our amps at about 50% volume and use fairly low crossover settings, well below 80 Hz.  We've also both discovered that bass room treatments, DSP, EQ and room correction are not required for the 4-sub DBA concept to work well.  
     I recently treated my room with GIK room treatments but the improvements I noticed were mainly in the midrange, treble and imaging qualities but the bass does sound just a bit smoother and more detailed, too.

Enjoy,
 Tim

Duke,

Your above easy to follow, in concise in layman like terms of DBA are very welcome, needed and surprisingly understandable. Some months ago I took millercarbon’s advice and read:

Optimal Bass Palyback In Small Rooms By Earl Geddes
Why multiple subwoofers in sound reproduction?
GedLee.com - GedLee LLC Papers by Earl Geddes

And ever since then I came to understand to NOT

’judge bass by it’s level despite the fact that some bass levels are not at all natural or neutral’.

In Earl Geddes ’Why Multiple Subs?’ papers - when I read:

1) If there are corners, then one sub should probably go in a corner. Corners have the unique characteristic of see all of the modes. But using two corners is not an effective use of two subs because the symmetrical situation makes these two sources less statistically independent. A less symmetrical location for the second sub would be better. 2) One of the subs should be relatively close to the mains, but not too close. Ideal here might be to locate the first sub close to the mains, but back in a corner, if in fact the mains are pulled out slightly from the wall behind them, as they should be. 3) The rest of the subs locations become far less important if the first two points above are adhered to.

Subwoofer requirements:

Because we are using 3 (or more) subwoofers, they do not need to be as powerful as a single subwoofer. Any decent active subwoofer (ported or closed design) with a 10" or bigger driver will do. It should have controls for.is

• level (continuously variable)
• low pass frequency (continuously variable)
• phase (switchable or continuously variable)
• parametric equalizer (optional)

It was if the subwoofer lesser deities themselves opened up to me and I tried the technique with only 2 subs at first. One in the left corner of the room closest to the mains and I moved the sub that was in the far right corner and place it asymmetrical out of the right corner and against the far right wall and noticed an improvement right away. Of course there’s more but I won’t’ go on.

Duke,
I’m just trying to let you know that because of your Swarm Subwoofer System I understand exactly what you have shown above NOW in a step by step manner to do the same thing in my own home and I say thank you.

It is extremely hard to convince some of us hard core bass heads that a very high level of gain, volume, headroom and ’mega bass’ are not needed for ’good bass’. But now I know.

There’s just one caveat, My subs do not have phase (switchable or continuously variable). My PSA subs have 2 pots for:

Time Delay from 0ms to 16ms and
Room Size from small to large

Theses PSA pots were made to be adjusted by ear.
How do and where should the adjustment be made with the 2 above pots
with the multiple sub (4 or more) equation?

@luisma31,

Outstanding room and rig indeed! I too have PSA and SVS subs that may be going up for sale. 

Duke,
I have been to the Swarm website this weekend but did not see the Azel's? Could you give me a link to the Azel's and any other of your products I may have missed please. Thanks!