Short List of Amps I prefer over the Pass Labs XA25 or INT 25

You used to be a reasonably affable and knowledgeable bloke and now this?

@fsonicsmith

It is clear from your starting sentence you are confusing me with some one else.  I won't be controlled by your disappointment, nor am I obliged to answer all of your obviously malformed inferences.

Do you really not comprehend the difference between MP3's shortcomings (and all of digital's) for the totally separate and distinct concept that Ralph is discussing?

I've never made any such equation.  I mentioned that Ralph was using a concept known to me (please read the entire Wikipedia article here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_masking

)  and to ask him to clarify the leap he made which I could not follow. I did so in a respectful manner, and gave him the opportunity to come back and illustrate his point so I could get it.  Fortunately for me, he did:


@atmashpere

Essentially though the tubes have enough 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion that those harmonics are able to mask the presence of the higher orders. So they **sound** to the human ear as if the higher orders are absent altogether. That is why they sound smoother.

Oh, my bad. I thought you were saying that the masking some how improved resolution. You are saying that masking reduces the perception of distortion. I was confused because earlier you mentioned that tubes have more detail, but the masking of distortion is unrelated to the perception of detail.

Thank you for the clarification.

Masking though, AFAIK has to do with closely spaced frequencies. Hard to mask higher order distortion, isn't it?

BTW, I like tubes a great deal. :) I'm not attacking them I just want to make sure I understand the arguments.

Best,


E

The explanations provided by Ralph above are exactly what I have been
reading about and find so interesting. Being afflicted with both Tinnitus
and Hyperacusis along with a measured 10k max hearing level, I 
am very sensitive to harsh, forward, bright sound.  Over 85db is uncomfortable
and when overexposed I require some time to pass before I want to hear any music even at lower levels. So that is me. Everyone hears things differently
so judge not lest ye be judged. I pass my finding as they relate to me.

My goal for is for music to move me, involve me, engage me.
"Magic" is the best term  I think.

If  "Neutral" and "Accurate" are your goals, the Lejonklou house sound
may be your ticket. Fredrik has a special Nothing Extra method of building amps
that allows you to hear lyrics you only guessed at before. 

Sometimes I wonder if all the terminology in use today-soundstage, airy, open, dark, etc was developed in an effort to classify sound that was actually unmoving
thus required further examination?
If sound does something to your brain that feels great then enjoyment is achieved.
Enough?

If sound does something to your brain that feels great then enjoyment is achieved.
Enough?

@chorus

Yes. :-) The only judge of what you should spend your money on is ultimately the buyer. Neither I nor an oscilloscope nor countless reviewers have any right to interfere in that process.

Still, this is a discussion forum, and when asked to think about what we like and why we like it the technical differences in gear is a lot of fun to discuss.

Just like beer. We can talk about the brewing process and the hops added, which is fascinating, but ultimately the reason you end up in detox is up to you.

Best,


E

I’m also, often, reminded how malleable our tastes are. I’ve been drinking this new tequila (Tres Amigos, organic, silver) which a very nice bartender recommended to me. At first I thought it tasted watery. My taste buds kept searching for the agave and earthy notes which are not there. Now that is gone and it tastes very smooth.

We are not automatons with precise, and unchanging hearing or tastes. We have all taken different paths to get to this forum and we’ll go on different paths when we leave. Lets relish the diversity, and be grateful for those willing to share their experience and education with us openly.

I was confused because earlier you mentioned that tubes have more detail, but the masking of distortion is unrelated to the perception of detail.

Thank you for the clarification.

Masking though, AFAIK has to do with closely spaced frequencies. Hard to mask higher order distortion, isn't it?

BTW, I like tubes a great deal. :) I'm not attacking them I just want to make sure I understand the arguments.

@erik_squires To be clear I didn't feel you were making any sort of attack! Asking for clarification is not an attack, and I welcome it.

Masking is a tricky thing but AFAIK doesn't have to involve closely spaced frequencies; if they are not closely spaced the ability to pick out the lower level sound(s) is better. This is fairly easy to experience. One example of this is our ability to pick out information when there is something like white noise in the foreground; analog signals can have noise but we can pick out signals that are a good 10dB below the noise floor! (I suspect this has something to do with the fact that wind and water sounds are very similar; so this could be a survival issue)


It appears that the ability to pick out signals in the noise floor relates directly to amplifier design. Amps with zero feedback tend to have a noise floor that involves a fairly natural 'white noise' hiss; amps that run feedback tend to have a noise floor that consists of inharmonic information and intermodulations, into which it **seems** that the ear cannot penetrate as it can a natural noise floor. This might explain why amps without feedback can often seem as if they have more low level detail. This is an area that I also feel needs more research (one exception to this is if the amp with feedback has sufficient gain bandwidth product such that it is stable with over 35dB feedback; such amps are quite rare). 


At any rate, I did say that tubes have more detail, and that they manage this without being bright. However I wasn't suggesting that masking distortion was the reason. I was instead suggesting that the presence in the correct quantity of 2nd and 3rd harmonic content somehow contributes to the ear's ability to pick out natural detail in the recording (including soundstage information). While this is documented, exactly how this occurs is an unknown (AFAIK) and something which I find very interesting.