Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?

@jwmorris --

As enthusiast enamored with our equipment, in our room, in our opinion we have to be careful not to be closed minded. I do not believe most enthusiast start with a great system. Great systems usually evolve over time. Most enthusiast come to a forum seeking advice and/or to learn from other people’s knowledge and experience.  

     We read, research, hear, or hear about a new way of doing things and we explore the new information. If we are open minded our joy of the hobby and our systems are improved. If we are determined to be closed minded, we do not grow. If we are determined to be closed minded we miss out on possible system improvements.

     If we insist our way is “The” only way we hinder/limit our own growth. If we openly criticize equipment and experiences with no credible experiences we could possibly hinder the growth of others. In those cases we should always remember to include “In My Opinion/Experience” etc.  
 
    I read more than I post. I try not to criticize anyone’s personal preference of speakers etc. I have heard multi-subwoofer setups. I actually considered purchasing a SWARM setup. I have experimented with a third subwoofer in my room. I have also experienced sub-woofer systems capable of Ultra Low Frequencies (ULF). I am very happy with my system but I am also very aware it can be improved.

     None of our systems are perfect. None of us know everything. None of us should attempt to invalidate the experience of someone else based on our own experience. The goal should always be to learn more/understand more. The goal should always be to improve and increase our enjoyment of music and the music playback systems. Some have forgotten this, others never knew it.  

Very well put (indeed above quoted post of yours should be a "sticker" on these pages), and I'm not saying this as someone necessarily complying in my actions with what you point out. I just know of it to be a commendable approach, and one to strive for. 

How SVS fixed it...

I think it's a little disingenuous of SVS to imply that they're the only ones that know how to use a big driver.

Hello phusis and jwmorris,

     I think our disagreements and differences expressed on this thread can be boiled down to a difference in preferences and priorities. I could go into detail but I believe it basically comes down to both of your top priorities seeming to be the optimum bass extension of your sub systems for HT Bluray 4K Ultra HD audio performance and my top priority being the optimum bass quality of my sub system for 2-ch stereo music hi-res digital music file audio performance.  I think both are enjoyable and worthy goals.  But why can't we have both?

    It's my understanding that current direct to hi-res digital recording technology is capable of recording deep bass content below 20 Hz on both digital music files and 4K Ultra HD Bluray discs.  Given the factual limits of human hearing, of course, it would make little sense to record this deep bass as discrete stereo channels and the bass below 80 Hz would be summed to mono during the mixing stage for both music and HT audio recordings.  
     I think this would be a big step forward in the quality of the listening experiences involved with both music and HT audio.  This would just require consumers possessing high quality subs capable of reproducing such deep bass frequencies, including my upgrading my 4 subs to ones of higher quality capable of reproducing bass frequencies accurately down to single digits.  
     Of course this would probably also destroy most regular consumer subs and sound bars that couldn't handle single digit bass frequencies, but that's a reasonable sacrifice, right?

Tim 

@noble100  I agree the priorities of any system can be very different. The priorities of the person mixing the music or sound track also come into play. The bottom line is we each spend our time, and hard earned money where it matters to us most.  

The question of destroying consumer subs and sound bars is the entire reason behind the BEQ thread linked earlier. Someone discovered that some film companies were reducing low bass content in blu-rays and DVD to prevent damaging consumer equipment. 

That makes sense. But if you have invested the time and money to have a system capable of sub 20 Hz performance you can get that filtered information back using BEQ. 

I did not plan on having a system capable of ultra low frequencies. The sub-woofers I bought were available less than 30 minutes away. I thought it was a great opportunity to own a pair of world class sub-woofers, so I made the purchase. 

I do not believe I am lacking in quality or quantity. I have added some screen shots of my room measurements to my profile. I will try and add some pictures soon. The next thing on my wish list is some room treatments. 


@phusis Thank you!


John

       

Hello John,

    
      I've always built my systems based on the assumption that bass content on virtually all music and HT source material (LPs, CDs, SACDs, DVD and Bluray, digital files, etc.)  only had bass extension down to 20 Hz since any recorded bass below 20 Hz was generally filtered out at the mixing stage.  
     I've been almost certain this assumption was correct and the complete story until you and phusis informed me that a group of AVS forum members had figured out a method, using a mini-DSP, that allows the retrieval of any bass content still existing on numerous specific Bluray and DVD discs that's below 20 Hz.
     This was the first I was aware this was even possible on certain discs, so I wanted to thank both of you for bringing this to my attention.  As I stated, I'm very satisfied with my current system's bass performance on both music and HT even though it's currently restricted to only 20 Hz in bass extension.  
    However, I am curious about experiencing how I would perceive even further bass extension in my room and system.  I understand I would need to upgrade my current Audio Kinesis Debra 4-sub distributed bass array system, or at least the existing four 4 ohm passive subs with 10" aluminum long-throw drivers it uses, along with adding a mini-DSP unit to realize high quality deep bass below 20 Hz.  Even then, I understand this deeper bass would only accessible on certain HT Bluray and DVDs.  I think whether I decide to proceed depends on your answer to the following question:

     Does the mini-DSP also allow retrieval of deeper bass content on audio only discs such as CDs and SACDs?


Thanks,